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Saturday, 21st January, 2012, 03:28 AM #21
The Great Druid (Lvl 17)
But it seems you aren't commenting on the review, rather, you are commenting on Erik Mona's comments -- so that's a different matter.
First, you are wrong: Wizkids has sold their Clix and Mage Knight line in both blind and see through starters, booster packs with 6-8 figures, 4 pack boosters, 2 packs, and one packs over the years.
Right now, they are clearly emphasizing single blind boxes in their Clix lines for reasons of making minis available at an accessible price point to teens.
And yes, Erik Mona is aware of Wizkids history and business practices. To be blunt, he's probably forgotten more about the gaming industry than you'll ever know. Moreover, he's posting in a thread on ENWorld to elucidate, clarify and inform all of us.
Everyone on ENWorld benefits when representatives of game manufacturers post here. Everyone on ENWorld loses out when they choose not to, for fear of getting drawn into a bitch session with cranky fans. You'll notice that it has been a LONG TIME since executives from WotC posted on ENWorld. That is not an accident.
My point: Just because you may disagree with Paizo's business decisions doesn't entitle you to be rude in how you express that displeasure. Don't wreck the place for the rest of us, please.
But if you want this to work ...
As for "working out" -- you did read the part above where the product line just sold out, right?
It may not be working out the way you want it to -- but it appears to be "working out" just fine, thank-you-very-much.
You are all about you; however, the product is not all about you. It's all about the marketplace. And you aren't the marketplace.
Try to be more fair in your criticisms and remember to separate the two.
Last edited by Steel_Wind; Saturday, 21st January, 2012 at 03:41 AM.
Saturday, 21st January, 2012, 04:13 AM #22
Magsman (Lvl 14)
Saturday, 21st January, 2012, 04:25 AM #23
Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)
No more than my intent was just to point out that that has been the preferred method pf packing singles for WizKids since day one. Singles. This is not a starter set or theme pack, so the other standard methods of WizKids packing does not apply here. If they still use that much packing on the theme sets when they come out, then we have a whole different conversation to have. But for now it is singles, and using the same packing methods as Clix for no good apparent reason.
Second note on this, single Clix cost more than a single Pathfinder mini because the Clix have multiple moving parts. Yet these are almost the same cost, and I am pretty sure that Pathfinder as a license does not get as much as DC or Marvel. So why the same cost?
And yes, I was aware they sold out. So did the first run of DDM. Long term, however, that model became unsustainable. It was short term profit, but not necessarily long term value, and I do give Paizo credit for trying to build long term value for both the company and its customers. But right now it looks like they are doing the exact same path as DDM, except less minis at a higher cost (as pointed out by others here) and we all know how DDM ended for WotC. Paizo might use similar models, but they overcame D&D/WotC in sales by doing different things with that model. So, why would they follow almost the same path as WotC in minis?
What I am saying is, if they have a different model planned, it would be good to use it sooner than later, because long term now, it looks very iffy.
Last edited by OpsKT; Saturday, 21st January, 2012 at 04:52 AM. Reason: spelling
Saturday, 21st January, 2012, 04:33 AM #24
Magsman (Lvl 14)
As Robert has already posted, WizKids has numerous packaging methods, from single boosters to multi-figure blind boosters (in several different formats) to visible sets (in tubes, in flat packs, etc.). When we signed our license with them, the pack-out option on the minis had not been set, and was not a major part of our negotiations in any event.
My primary concern is that the miniatures look cool, are fairly priced, and represent the Pathfinder brand well. Though they are certainly more expensive than many consumers would want, I think WizKids delivered ably on all three of those issues.
How they package their product, and what formats they use, is more an area of their expertise. It's important to know that it's a big turn-off for people, and it's something we'll be discussing as we move forward with the line, but our general business practice is to partner with established experts in the field, and trust them in their areas of expertise.
In the coming days, we'll be announcing details on the next set and the first Encounter Pack of nonrandom miniatures. The latter will likely appeal to gamers who feel the price on randoms is too expensive (though I also think those customers may be best served buying singles that they want from resellers or their FLGS).
We'll keep trying to improve Pathfinder Battles with every release. So far, while there is definitely room for improvement here and there, I think we're off to a remarkably good start.
Saturday, 21st January, 2012, 04:50 AM #25
Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)
Trust me, when I'm being rude, people will know. There would also be a lot of in place of my words. I'm not a subtle guy.
Thank you for responding to the other points. At least some other ideas were considered, and the future plans do seem pretty different. Perhaps you will do better than DDM, perhaps not. Perhaps the market for that kind of product is too limited.
No one really knows. Even marketing projections are little more than educated guesses.
I'm just going to ignore this thread now, before I piss some other er off.
See, that's what I mean. Not subtle.
Last edited by OpsKT; Saturday, 21st January, 2012 at 04:55 AM.
Saturday, 21st January, 2012, 05:05 AM #26
Magsman (Lvl 14)
Well, two strangers thought you were being rude, so take that for what it's worth. "People I work with are mean" or "you'll know when I'm _really_ being an ass" isn't a great defense, but whatever. If you didn't mean to be offensive, I'm not offended.
Saturday, 21st January, 2012, 05:21 AM #27
Grandmaster of Flowers (Lvl 18)
I was skeptical of the single boosters. but I've changed my mind. it's nice to have something in this price range that I can pick up at the store on impulse
Saturday, 21st January, 2012, 06:30 AM #28
Guide (Lvl 11)
- Join Date
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- ARLINGTON VERMONT
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ø Block megamania
All in all I like these figures.
VERY generic choices (but expected as the first set)
packaging...... my issue isn't the single pack or the amount of pack. Its the lack of security. What is keeping certain groups from cherry-picking the rares and leaving the rest for sales?
No dragons? Only the promo one? (awesome as it was but no set dragons?)
basically before I order the next set I need to know if there is variety. Most people here (I may be wrong) were avid collectors of the DDM figures. Do we need Dire rats? More Orcs? 4 Goblins (repaints so really only 2). and in no way,shape or form would I buy these in any way but as a brick through a bulk discount dealer. Cost and security.... cost and security.
Saturday, 21st January, 2012, 08:34 AM #29
Cutpurse (Lvl 5)
I like the fact that Paizo/Wizkids are putting out PF specific minis, and its just nice to have more minis available in general to replace the old D&D minis, but I have a couple issues:
- I bought a couple of the 2 small mini random packs just to test the waters (already picked up the Beginner Box Heroes mini set prior to this) and Ive found these guys do not have very good durability. I dont pack them tight as noted in this review, and they are reasonably secure in a tupperware container with a few of my DDM minis as well. However after about 3 trips with them I now have 2 broken minis - I couldnt understand how this happened!
- Generally I like the minis, but I find them to look too cartooney. I thought they looked cartooney from earlier photos before they were released, and was hoping that it might be different in person, but no. They just feel like they are very much from a cartoon to me, especially when next to the DDM minis. I think it has something to do with the kind of paints used, or at least the tone of the colours. I havent really seen anyone mention this, so maybe it is just me. Does anyone else find them a little too cartooney?
Otherwise though, they are nice sculpts from what I have seen myself so far. I was also a little apalled by the massive amount of waste these suckers produce though (thanks for pointing that part out Steel_Wind, its definetly an important aspect), so Ill likely stay away from them in the future unless they change the quality/cartooney style/packaging, pretty much any combos of those improvements would do alot to get me to be a repeat customer for those minis.
Saturday, 21st January, 2012, 08:39 AM #30
Enchanter (Lvl 12)
- Join Date
- May 2002
- Venal Fortress, Gray Waste of Hades
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ø Block Sammael
Unfortunately, I think only the "wide range of miniatures" choice is being observed here. I imagine that the price is also higher than DDM because the minis are not manufactured by Paizo but licensed out, i.e. both Paizo and WizKids need to turn out a profit.
Looking at the gallery, these are the minis I'm interested in (so if someone were to post high-res photos of them, it'd be greatly appreciated):
Giant Caveweaver Spider
The rest I either have in abundance, or the sculpts/paint jobs don't appeal to me.
Last edited by Sammael; Saturday, 21st January, 2012 at 09:16 AM.
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