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Monday, 23rd January, 2012, 12:49 AM #61
Gallant (Lvl 3)
Even if I voice my unhappiness with this behavior, and my players are cooperative with me and decide to continue onward instead of resting, the nature of 3E is that a lucky roll on my part can kill a player even in an encounter that I would normally consider not threatening. So I can't really blame players for wanting to be cautious. The behavior is a consequence of how the game's mechanics work as a whole.
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Monday, 23rd January, 2012, 01:10 AM #62
The Great Druid (Lvl 17)
Last edited by Rechan; Monday, 23rd January, 2012 at 01:16 AM.
Monday, 23rd January, 2012, 01:14 AM #63
Lama (Lvl 13)
Monday, 23rd January, 2012, 02:22 AM #64
Spellbinder (Lvl 16)
My problem I call a 15min work day, but only becuse it is the meme. My prblem is the rest when I am out day.
an 11th level wizard with a good resrve feat and a dozen potions and scrolls, and 3-4 wands and staffs. a good ring and armor, and 3-4 wondurus items.
an 11th level cleric, and a 2/3/3/3 Fighter/rogue/ranger/prestige class all working well togather, with 4 or so wands of healing (say 3 cure lights and 1 cure mod) and a scroll or two of remove XYZ as a group items.
we don't do 1 encounter then stop... we do 3-4 encounters, each one gets 3-5 low level spells and 1 or 3 BIG spells... then when those spells run out we rope trick, or teleport, or plane shift or what ever, and start again tomorrow.
I'm with D&D...Any Edition
Monday, 23rd January, 2012, 02:55 AM #65
Myrmidon (Lvl 10)
In 4th ed, sure casters do things like MM that feel similar to say twinstrike. But they still do heaps of things still do a large number of things that still are pretty magical that alter battles in ways that are 'magical'. For example the wizard utility arcane gate can reshape a battlefield in way that non-casters just cant.
I just cant see that the line between magic and non-magic was busted in 4th ed.
The line between arbitrarily use-limited basis in respect to magic and martial prowess is even weaker. If you can imagine limits to the capacity of mage in using X amount of magic per day why is it so hard to imagine a non-caster being able to use his or her capacities X amount of times per day or encounter?
Last edited by Raith5; Monday, 23rd January, 2012 at 03:14 AM.
Monday, 23rd January, 2012, 04:02 AM #66
Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)
So after all, maybe we want the same thing
Monday, 23rd January, 2012, 04:23 AM #67
Spellbinder (Lvl 16)
Monday, 23rd January, 2012, 05:25 AM #68
Guide (Lvl 11)
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ø Ignore Nellisir
I played an intentionally min-maxed human abjurer for a few levels, something like 12th-14th level. There was almost no disagreement that he was the most powerful character at the table, and in a (hypothetical) PC vs PC battle, could wipe the floor with the rest of the party. Only the cleric came close.The other thing is the so called "Caster / Melee" rift. Where wizards and other casters are basically much better than every one else. Has anyone ever actually encountered this in their games? I personally haven't, perhaps it's because my group isn't into min maxing or something. People who play fighters or monks or whatever, they have a fantastic time. They kill enemies just as much as any other character, and I personally have just never seen all of these horrible terrible game breaking elements that seem to be so rampant.
That said, he had a glaring achilles heel, which was his prep time. He had several defenses that could be raised simultaneously, but his initiative was never that great, and anyone getting to him early on had a good chance of screwing things up. Party tactics while I played him ran heavily towards the "give the wizard cover for the first few rounds, and then get the hell out of the way" variety. I never tried to steal anyone's thunder, and there were always enough monsters to go around. Everyone had fun.
The min-maxing definately had mins as well as maxs. Hit points were good, but my unspelled AC was terrible (or so I remember).
Secrets of the Shadowend - Notes, scribblings, writings, and memorandum on the Shadowend Campaign Setting.
Monday, 23rd January, 2012, 06:00 AM #69
The Great Druid (Lvl 17)
Again, failure should always be an option. Just because the PCs are taking a nap does not mean that the bad guys won't steal a march on them.
The Auld Grump
Oh, I am a cook, and a captain bold, and the mate of the Nancy brig,
The midship mite,
And the Bo'sun tight,
And the crew of the captain's gig...
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Monday, 23rd January, 2012, 06:13 AM #70
Orcus on an Off-Day (Lvl 22)