Seminar Transcript - Class Design: From Assassins to Wizards

FitzTheRuke · Jan 27, 2012

UngeheuerLich said:
also I want to note, that the enworld transkript is a lot better than the one on the wizard site... the magical feats to gain at will powers sounds better than feats to spend on at-will powers what I understood in the live chat.

I noticed that too. Made me wonder why I spent the time reading the Wizards one when I immediately noticed more accurate transcriptions here and had to read the thing all over again. Better formatting too.

darjr · Jan 27, 2012

BryonD said:
To be clear, this is the first red flag I've seen. We are a long way from deal breaker. We are also a long way from "this is an improvement over what I have now, therefore I am switching". But we are still VERY much in play and keeping my interest.

Huh, good point. I hope it's like 'You will need to rest after using this cause you need to recover after it uses that much of your soul/energy/willpower/magic internal thingamajig to cast it' but that rest is about 5 minutes and you can't do it in the middle of combat'.

It's still early, I wonder if they could still change encounter powers to be like that?

edit: ninja'd.

Wormwood · Jan 27, 2012

darjr said:
It's still early, I wonder if they could still change encounter powers to be like that?

Well, it basically *is* like that now, so I hope they maintain that going forward---although a less 'jargon' explanation would suit me fine.

Aldarc · Jan 27, 2012

BryonD said:
The mention of encounter powers is the first red flag I've seen.

Rob: We could bring back a whole raft of at-wills from 4e, and make those type of things Wizard feats. There are also magical feats that are non-combat oriented. Different frequency rates, as well (encounter).

It sounds optional and ignorable.

darjr · Jan 27, 2012

Wormwood said:
Well, it basically *is* like that now, so I hope they maintain that going forward---although a less 'jargon' explanation would suit me fine.

I'm finding it hard not to use the jargon.

I guess I meant that it might be possible, in the middle of a combat, that the other characters could secure a long enogh rest for the player to regain that power. Less jargon and less meta and less strict on the definition of what a 'combat/ecnounter' is.

But yea, I agree.

Primal · Jan 28, 2012

Vyvyan Basterd said:
The first bit of news that makes me a sad panda.

Me too; IMO multiclassing in 3E just didn't work as well as it did in AD&D. It works a little better in 4E and PF, although I'd vastly prefer either PF archetypes or 4E themes being the way to go with multiclassing in D&D Next.

I'm also concerned about losing the 4E power format and keywords; especially the latter aspect really made it easy for everyone to get how class features, feats and powers interacted with each other. I guess this will mean that (once again) we will see lots of arguments over whether the fighter can use Cleave against Mirror Image (and willingly target individual images) and can your druid shapechange into a T-Rex, and so on.

As for Saves and Defenses, I'm hoping they'll be keeping both, but saving throws could work like they do in 3E (and Defenses could be 10 + your save bonus).

Dice4Hire · Jan 28, 2012

Remathilis said:
If you go by there statement of Every PHB1 class:

Assassin
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Illusionist
Monk
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer
Warlock
Warlord
Wizard

Damn, that's a lot of classes!

They did say the ones that were in every edition. A lot of those were not in every edition's PHBI

Nebulous · Jan 28, 2012

Chris_Nightwing said:
This all sounds very encouraging! It'll be quite a feat (hoho) however to get every PH1 class uniquely into the same system.

I also wonder if we'll see something like spell points.. from what they were saying about Wizards.

I would guess they will tie this to psionics again as an optional spell system, to appeal to players that like that style. 5e has the potential to do this beautifully. BUT...what if it's not out in the core rules? That might upset some people, even if it comes down the pike 3 months later?

ppaladin123 · Jan 28, 2012

I am cautiously optimistic about a revised Vancian system with fewer spells per day, a more limited spell list, and rituals to cover the really impressive stuff.

Jeff Carlsen · Jan 28, 2012

Encounter powers always seems a little mechanically off for me, particularly for the non-casters.

For a wizard, the idea that he has to rest for a few minutes and reprepare a simple spell makes sense. There's an internal logic to that.

But not for marshal characters. The following has no internal logic:

I have three encounter maneuvers. I can use each one time before resting, but I can't use the same one more than once. Apparently, each one makes me tired in a very specific way that doesn't interfere with my ability to do something else.

Now, instead, if I had a three points of stamina, and each encounter power used one, but I could perform the same encounter multiple times, that would make more sense.

So, it's not that encounter based resources are a problem. They can be done sensibly. It's just that they need to follow an internal logic. The limitations should be based on something in the setting and narrative.