Seminar Transcript - Class Design: From Assassins to Wizards

SteveC · Jan 28, 2012

Well this is the first thing about the edition that's really starting to make me worried, so I suspect the folks who dislike 4E must be loving it right now. Vancian? Powerful effects balanced by the number of expected encounters? Fighters that seem to be just making attacks by default?

Ugh. Sounds like the Wayback machine...

Still, we haven't seen any of the rules yet, so I'm still hoping we aren't moving back to a pseudo-3x world that's the back to being "Fantasy Vietnam".

It's a long way from the playtest to final PHB...

Nebulous · Jan 28, 2012

Giltonio_Santos said:
I really hope they're not doing that! It's much harder to create a low fantasy experience when players are looking forward to play a dragon-like creature.

Cheers,

I tend to agree. As a DM i hated the Dragonborn, it never fit my idea of the kind of world i wanted to play.

However, if a player really WANTS that build...

The question comes down to the core rules, and when the DM puts his foot down and says NO. I don't know which is the best route, kitchen sink or DM judgement or scaled back core. Personally, i would hate to see Dragonborn and Warforged in the core. But...since 5e is being so darn flexible already, i might have to be flexible too.

Gentlegamer · Jan 28, 2012

Morrus said:
Monte: Plus feedback on 8' tall halflings.

Flatus Maximus · Jan 28, 2012

It's a crying shame that clerics will still be Vancian casters. Wizards? OK, I get it -- memorization fades and must be renewed daily. But if a cleric calls upon his/her god to intercede RIGHT NOW, it should be spontaneous rather than a daily prayer:

"Dear god, please grant me two...no, make that three cure light wounds, one bless, two...no, I can get away with one dispel magic,...god, are you getting all this?"

IMHO.

Nebulous · Jan 28, 2012

BryonD said:
The mention of encounter powers is the first red flag I've seen.

Why Bryon? If they can balance it in somehow, so that not EVERYONE has encounter powers like 4e all the time, maybe feats now give you At Will and Encounter abilities (i hate the word powers, it's too superhero) then it should balance just fine. Feats are going to be very different in 5e. No more Dodge +1 you have to add to remember by round. Solid static changes that remain constant to your character.

Dire Bare · Jan 28, 2012

Giltonio_Santos said:
I really hope they're not doing that! It's much harder to create a low fantasy experience when players are looking forward to play a dragon-like creature.

Cheers,

Eh, depends on how you define low fantasy. I can easily see a pulp style campaign with a gritty low magic style, and barbaric dragon-men warriors!

And as others have pointed out, how hard is it to say that for this particular campaign, dragonborn aren't appropriate?

Dire Bare · Jan 28, 2012

FitzTheRuke said:
Looks like you missed Illusionist, but from the sound of it, we might see Psion instead or as well.

I really thought they'd go for less classes and more subclasses/builds, but it's no bid deal to me either way.

Still sounds good to me. Can't wait to try it.

I really like the lower "old school" damage expressions and softer to-hit curve.

I can see the sense of designing and playtesting classes that won't be published in Book I. It sounds like they are playtesting psionics to be fully a part of the game from day one, even if some of the classes don't appear until Book II or later. I'm actually very excited for this, as psionics has often felt like a poorly conceived afterthought for several editions.

ppaladin123 · Jan 28, 2012

Flatus Maximus said:
It's a crying shame that clerics will still be Vancian casters. Wizards? OK, I get it -- memorization fades and must be renewed daily. But if a cleric calls upon his/her god to intercede RIGHT NOW, it should be spontaneous rather than a daily prayer:

"Dear god, please grant me two...no, make that three cure light wounds, one bless, two...no, I can get away with one dispel magic,...god, are you getting all this?"

IMHO.

Maybe the cleric will be a spontaneous "Vancian" caster like the 3e sorcerer. The numbers then are just about how many favors they can ask for per day and how big those favors are.

I am hoping that the Warlock and the Sorcerer are not Vancian.

Flatus Maximus · Jan 28, 2012

ppaladin123 said:
Maybe the cleric will be a spontaneous "Vancian" caster like the 3e sorcerer....

I've always equated Vancian casting with prepared casters, so I mean the ol' dudes with intermittent Alzheimer's.

mudlock · Jan 28, 2012

BryonD said:
But on encounter based powers, it is an arbitrary and internally inconsistent frequency. Something may work once a day because that is they way the story of the power works. And once every 15 minutes could be justified in certain cases.

It doesn't make sense for a great power to offer a warlock a power usable "once per encounter".

So when you see "per encounter", just replace it with "per 5 minutes". Because of fatigue.

There, done; now everyone can stop complaining about encounter powers.

Seminar Transcript - Class Design: From Assassins to Wizards

SteveC

Doing the best imitation of myself

Nebulous

Legend

Gentlegamer

Adventurer

Flatus Maximus

First Post

Nebulous

Legend

Dire Bare

Legend

Dire Bare

Legend

ppaladin123

Adventurer

Flatus Maximus

First Post

mudlock

First Post

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