Seminar Transcript - Reimagining Skills and Ability Scores

Erdrick Dragin · Jan 30, 2012

Once again, just like with 4e, I feel the same way with this 5e or "D&D Next" or whatever they want to color it up as. I am feeling more disappointment the more I hear.

This isn't starting to sound like "Everyone from every edition can play the way they want from their favorite edition at the same table."

No, instead, this is starting to sound like,"Everyone at the same table can play with half of what their edition did best, but they're going to be stuck compromising and dealing with the other half that's not from their edition."

It's like this, WotC:

If I cannot take my 3e character sheet, EXACTLY THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN, and play it in D&D Next exactly the way I would have in 3e...then there's no point in playing this 5e.

Anyone else see my point? I mean, it's starting to sound like we're still better off playing what we have with our preferred edition, because it's sounding like I have to muddy up my 2e or 4e or whatever character sheet somewhat just for it to be able to work in D&D Next.

When I can see my Paladin/Cavalier/Fighter Human from 3.5e character sheet, completely untouched and unmodified, be able to work in this edition, than I'll believe WotC.

Otherwise, it's all just dust in the wind again.

1Mac · Jan 30, 2012

On the "save vs. attack", it could be that the players always roll vs. a static NPC modifier, whether they are rolling saves or attacks. That's how I'd do it.

FitzTheRuke · Jan 30, 2012

It's certainly a potential concern, but I don't think we have enough information to truly worry about Attributes being over-valued (yet). I think the shallow power-curve might make up a lot of what people imagine would be trouble with rolling stats or getting stat-increasing items, or any of the rest.

Unlike recent editions it sounds like it will be more viable to play with a mixed-level party. Perhaps in the same way the game will support mixed-optimisation. I hope so, anyway.

I like most of what I hear so far, at least enough that I'm eager to give it a shot and see how it works in play.

I'm surprised more people don't realise that none of how it "sounds" matters - it's how it plays. You can't tell that unless you give it a try. An open mind helps too.

Though I'm not surprised that the cautious optimism that's been the standard so far is starting to border on early edition-wars now that we've seen the smallest barest hint of what's to come (even with it all being subject to change). That's the internet for you.

FitzTheRuke · Jan 30, 2012

Erdrick Dragin said:
If I cannot take my 3e character sheet, EXACTLY THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN, and play it in D&D Next exactly the way I would have in 3e...then there's no point in playing this 5e.

If it's a deal-breaker for you to have to play with a new character sheet (of all things) I think you'd really better just stick to the version you're currently playing.

Honestly, I don't know what you were expecting... did you mistake the idea that you'd be able to play characters in the style of various editions to being able to literally play characters from various editions?

MatthewJHanson · Jan 30, 2012

Sunsword said:
I think if the result of the spell is a hit, the DC for the Save will be the total of the roll. I don't think it will require an additional roll. Or if the spell Auto Hits, you'll roll to generate the DC.

Say you want to cast fire ball.

In 3e/Pathfinder attacker makes no roll and the target makes one roll to avoid damage.
In 4e the attacker makes one roll to hit and the target makes no roll.

It sounds like in 5e the attacker will make a roll to set the DC, then the target will make a roll to try to beat that DC.

So in total there are more dice being rolled for each attack.

A'koss said:
Are you sure you have that right? Saves vs melee attacks?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was just saying I'd be okay if they did have the defender roll to avoid melee attacks (but not the attacker). I didn't get the impression that it's their plan. (And static AC is probably too much of a sacred cow).

Siberys · Jan 30, 2012

Erdrick Dragin said:
If I cannot take my 3e character sheet, EXACTLY THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN, and play it in D&D Next exactly the way I would have in 3e...then there's no point in playing this 5e.

Anyone else see my point?

Uhhh... No, I don't see your point. If you could port your sheet straight over, why not just play 3e or PF? What's the point of a new edition, then? If you are so perfectly satisfied with 3e, you aren't in the target market.

I may not be up for the new edition, but I'm going to be a little more reasonable than that with judging it; 4e (my currently preferred edition) will only come up for comparison's sake, a bar to determine whether to switch or not, not as an exact ideal.

Deadboy · Jan 30, 2012

I'm hoping the stuff about hard-capping ability scores and "mortal limits" doesn't make it into the final version of the game. I liked that my character grew from a slightly above average person to a literal demi-god with ability scores in the 20s or even 30s.

I don't want to have to have stat boosting items making me look like a magic Christmas tree just so I can exceed mortal limits.

Aldarc · Jan 30, 2012

MatthewJHanson said:
Say you want to cast fire ball.

In 3e/Pathfinder attacker makes no roll and the target makes one roll to avoid damage.
In 4e the attacker makes one roll to hit and the target makes no roll.

It sounds like in 5e the attacker will make a roll to set the DC, then the target will make a roll to try to beat that DC.

So in total there are more dice being rolled for each attack.

IMHO, this sounds absolutely terrible.

Gilwen · Jan 30, 2012

Morrus said:
I love the idea of not having a skill list at all. It's simply the ability scores, with bonuses to certain actions, and those actions are open-ended and infinite in possibility.

STR 15 (+2 when climbing, +3 when opening jars)
DEX 12 (+2 when doing backflips)
CON 10 (+4 against poison)
INT 14 (+2 when researching, +2 when dealing with the history of Abba)
WIS 9 (+4 when resisting compulsion due to stubbornness)
CHA 10 (+2 initial impression due to good looks, +2 when dancing)

That is exactly what I am excited about. If 3E had dumped skills and did this I would have never moved on to 4th!

MacMathan · Jan 30, 2012

Rolled attributes as default does not play well with face to face organized play at all or online play for that matter.

Since a lot of new blood finds the game through organized play(if not what's the point) and I think online should be a healthy part of that too there will be the "default" and what players may have actually learned as the default at their first intro to the game.

Gotta say this is my least favorite transcript yet.