Seminar Transcript - Reimagining Skills and Ability Scores

fumetti · Jan 30, 2012

Morrus said:
I've always been of the opposite school of thought. I've always wanted race to be more important than it is.

Usually, it has a bit of an effect at first (not much) and by 5th level there's no difference to note between a hafling and a half-orc. But I WANT there to be a real noticeable difference between those two choices for the entire character life. A half-orc should be big and strong, and halfling should not (unless you do some weird stuff).

I'd go further. I'd make the usual modifiers +/- 4. You KNOW that's a half-orc. He's big and strong, whatever career he chooses. The halfling is never going to be as strong as a half-orc.

I think I'm in a minority there. Certainly Monte Cook doesn't agree with me.

Agreed. Race should be as big of a decision as class.

Warunsun · Jan 30, 2012

avin said:
Plane Bleeding is something I use since before 3E in another systems... it's a good idea... 4E cosmology has some nice ideas... but another full hand of dull ideas such as everything is caused by Gods vs Primordials, Elemental Chaos, etc... but it's just me.

I am not sold on the whole Dawn War concept. The reason is because usually every campaign world has its own creation myth. Does it make sense that every world has its own creation myth in a planer campaign where you would be visiting different worlds? Absolutely not. In that case Dawn War is just another competing version of it.

But outside of the Dawn War the 4E set up of the planes is actually damn nice. I really enjoy it. The connection is amazing. The only other bit of fluff I have some doubts with is making all demons count as elementals. I don't like that but whatever. I am sure in 5E that demons will be demons alone again. I would love to see all the missing planes return and be accessible via the Astral Sea or the Elemental Chaos. They find a way to tie the Ethereal Plane back in I am sure as well. It can all be good.

fumetti · Jan 30, 2012

Die rolls for ability stats? Maybe for noobs.

I haven't rolled a character's stats since the mid-1980s.

I create a character and his basic abilities as if it was the protagonist in a novel. I develop the personality and how I want to play the campaign (combat or role-playing). Advantages and disadvantages are balanced within the character concept, before stats are determined.

Then I pick the stats.

avin · Jan 30, 2012

Warunsun said:
The only other bit of fluff I have some doubts with is making all demons count as elementals. I don't like that but whatever. I am sure in 5E that demons will be demons alone again.

I need to start bribing alpha testers to feedback towards this and the return of Yugoloths.

And Modrons.

There's no D&D without Modrons as a core race.

What what?

thzero · Jan 30, 2012

Yeah, right. I've been rolling them since the early-1980s. :| Just because you don't roll for stats doesn't mean others don't. And really I have never met many GMs that just let you pick the stats; at very least they give you point-buys.

This isn't a my way or the highway type of thing.

fumetti said:
Die rolls for ability stats? Maybe for noobs.

I haven't rolled a character's stats since the mid-1980s.

I create a character and his basic abilities as if it was the protagonist in a novel. I develop the personality and how I want to play the campaign (combat or role-playing). Advantages and disadvantages are balanced within the character concept, before stats are determined.

Then I pick the stats.

Aldarc · Jan 30, 2012

avin said:
They never said TGW is returning. I would love it, but expect to see a 4E + GW mix...

I know, but it has me worried, especially when factored into a lot of their other musings.

Edit: I would not be opposed to the Great Wheel and the 4e Cosmology returning, but I would want them in a Planes supplement and neither presumed as core. Cosmologies should be particular to settings.

Klaus · Jan 30, 2012

avin said:
They never said TGW is returning. I would love it, but expect to see a 4E + GW mix...

That doesn't make sense at all. Really. 3E is a damn fine game, but they never said we would be able to use our old sheets.

That's just not reasonable.

Prime World is a horrible concept. Call it Prime Plane and we can start talking.

Plane Bleeding is something I use since before 3E in another systems... it's a good idea... 4E cosmology has some nice ideas... but another full hand of dull ideas such as everything is caused by Gods vs Primordials, Elemental Chaos, etc... but it's just me.

That's why I think we should have a somewhat modular cosmology.

Well put.

I love the 4e cosmology.]

I love that we have the middle world, with its twin reflections (one light, one dark).
I love that we have the Astral Sea (which looks amazing, and should be the basis for any future Spelljammer), with these "Hyperboreas" and "Elysium Fields" and "Mount Olympus" floating in it, and that you can sail past the edge of the world into the stars where the gods dwell.
I love the Elemental Chaos, churning and roiling in endless fury (remember: Gaea emerged fully formed from Chaos, as well).
And below all of Creation, you have the Abyss, the End of Things, the shard of entropy bent of undoing the planes, like a black hole trying to consume everything.

Sammael · Jan 30, 2012

avin said:
I need to start bribing alpha testers to feedback towards this and the return of Yugoloths.

And Modrons.

There's no D&D without Modrons as a core race.

What what?

I believe most of the anti-Modron lobbyists are no longer with WotC, so there may yet be hope.

As for the Great Wheel / 4E Cosmology, despite being a big fan of Planescape, I freely admit that the Great Wheel has flaws and that there are some cool things that can be scavenged from the 4E Cosmology.

However, one thing I really disliked was the concept that all planes must be adventure-friendly. No, they bloody well shouldn't be, some of them should be the most soul-sucking life-draining hope-crushing breath-stealing places EVAR. And that's precisely their charm. Not every place exists solely to be adventured in.

BASHMAN · Jan 30, 2012

One thing I think may be neat to do with this "make up your skills" approach is what to do in Specific vs. General type skills. Taking a queue from Cartoon Action Hour, in the case of a tie, the more specific skill wins. So if someone with Melee ties with someone with Swords, Swords wins, and if someone with Swords ties with someone with Rapier, Rapier wins. The same could be applied to this skill system. You could take Athletics to do swimming and climbing, but if you pick just "climbing" you get an edge over someone else using a more generic term like "athletics".

avin · Jan 30, 2012

Sammael said:
However, one thing I really disliked was the concept that all planes must be adventure-friendly. No, they bloody well shouldn't be, some of them should be the most soul-sucking life-draining hope-crushing breath-stealing places EVAR. And that's precisely their charm. Not every place exists solely to be adventured in.

Where do I sign?

I think a group of low-to-mid level adventurers could venture Gehenna (as an example) and, with luck, find no real trouble when they arrive... but it should be clear that it's a hostile place... as they spend time in there they start to change and that change reflects on their mood... sooner or later natives will find them, they will die from some hazard... or the evil itself will do that job from inside out.

But Gehenna should never be an adventuring ground for them.