[LPF] Kostry Kopec

[sblock=ooc]We can roleplay this however you guys like, but since we've moved the discussion ooc, I'll continue it there for now in the (hopeful) interest of clarity. I'm by no means trying to shoehorn anyone, but in an effort to give some tranparency, here are some elements that went into what's happening here:

As I indicated over in the Upcoming thread that I think most of you saw, but which I probably should have re-iterated here, this whole trade trip is a fluff-heavy excuse to get you to Heth in relatively short fashion. It is, at best, a framing device for a much different adventure ("We thought we were going to get some papers signed, but you'll never believe what we found when we got there..."). At worst, it's a lame red herring. I feel Heth was the best place to set this town, but with that being months of travel away (and having made that mistake and had to course-correct literally mid-stream in my last adventure) I was, in essence, trying to come up with something mildly more entertaining than "you spend several months traveling." That it baby-steps forward my pet obsession with the fortunes of House Gabbiano (and now adds something to the Gabbiano/Boraga feud) is entirely gravy for me.

One of the limits on that flavor-frame, though, is that LPF has strict wealth by level limits. I went back and forth with Mowgli several times in order to trim treasure enough to let me maintain the CR of encounters, have item gifts from your primary contact in Kostry Kopec, and include at least one bigger budget item which is tailored to help you survive some of the end of this adventure. Even then, I'm still not entirely certain I won't be doing juggling when all's said and done. In the end, though, there was very little left to put in the hands of House Gabbiano.

You can negotiate a higher rate now, but that's money I have to strip from the treasure in the adventure, and as payment for services rendered it's money you won't even get until AFTER everything is over, as opposed to the in-adventure treasure, which I can tell you now should be fairly hot-swappable since you're in a town. i.e., when you rest after X major encounter(s), it doesn't break anything for that rest to involve shopping trips. Better still, they'll be shopping trips informed by what you've learned so far, rather than a big generic shopping trip now where you may or may not stock up on useful items.

Obviously TBG will be translating to 'bonuses' of various stripes, most likely from Gabbiano. But I think it's just asking for trouble for me to make some kind of guess as to the TBG that will be available at the end of the adventure and throw it into a promised payment when folks may take less time to finish things.

In general, I've satisfied myself with the knowledge that House Gabbiano is, per its history, a poor house. They're trying to change that, but they don't have a lot of funds. In general, I think Finia's here less because she needs hearty men and more because she figures the big-hearted folk who help poor folk for a living might be bought for what her house can actually afford. Being stubborn and prideful, of course, you'd have to push her much harder than Tyrien's seemingly-naive negotiation attempt to get her to admit it.

Yowsers. That was longer than I intended. I apologize in advance if all of it's putting a sour taste in your mouths or is ruining the verisimilitude of hooking your characters. [/sblock]

OOC: I think what SK was trying to say was, while we as players are very much accepting of the plot hook, some of us as characters are not. And remember, no game will be done in a month. Pay us 1000 go each, but take it out of TBG as a front pay.

At any rate, Anaerion does not care how much he gets paid. He simply there for the experience.

[sblock=ooc]

jackslate45 said:

OOC: That being said, having never been anywhere in Heth before, it is very likely that teleporting there ends up on the other side of the world.

Click to expand...

Not exactly. Kalgor was only suggesting teleporting home, to the DWI, with the papers. The outbound through the enemy gate would be the same. There is only a 1% chance of winding up in another inn in Venza. It would take two scrolls, as a minimum level teleport scroll CL9 costing 1,125 gp would only take four people and we have five in the party, unless we stuff someone in a haversack for 5 minutes. It would get us 900 miles. Is that far enough, or is Heth farther out than that? 3,180 would get five veterans for six days at standard wages with the scrolls to get home, and be weeks faster than their original plan. For profit mongers, time is money.

Question: Are we accomplishing the trade agreement if this goes as planned, then just showing up a bit late back home?
Or are we abandoning her goals and screwing her over?

If she plans with us to go out by House B gate, do the business, return by scroll after five days, she can get her cost down to 3,025 gp. We go do her gig, find something else interesting and worth staying. Have one mage carefully study a place for a day. Use 1 scroll to go to DWI, return documents, use other scroll to return to place he just left. We honorably handle House G work and still are in Heth together. By the end, we can afford our own teleport scrolls home, or take a slow boat ride back, "out of adventure time". If we shove miss chatterbox into a haversack, we can get the cost down to 1,900 gp to Finia. (she is the smallest of us)

I think that suggestion will fit the goals of the adventure well, makes House G money faster and doesn't screw over Kalgor's sense of honor.

It is just a suggestion and I will go along with any plot hook that gets us started, even if we are working too cheap.
[/sblock]

[sblock=ooc]If I read the wiki map correctly, as the crow flies, Venza to Kostry Kopec (I've put it around the southern apex of the Inner Sea) is actually roughly 2200 miles. So, 3 scrolls even if I buy the haversack stuff, and you have no way of studying the mid-trip jump locations, so you'd either have to supplement with scrying scrolls or pay someone to do the scrying. Thus my trying to jump through hoops to come up with a means to get you there in record time. I tried to come up with a reasonable way to let you sneak back through the Boraga gate, but honestly, I couldn't manage it. My intent was to end the adventure with your boarding the ship, the rewards either already on there or handed out off-screen, since I didn't think a final meeting with Gabbiano would be entirely necessary at that point.

The adventure proper is in service of the town / mayor, so I expect that succeeding there would have the side effect of netting you success at your MacGuffining, as well.

As to Kalgor's honor: so far as I'm aware, the only character who's expressed any objection to the payment is Tyrien. Because she's a bubbly, naive-seeming character, and because her counter offer was so much higher than the initial one, Finia's in character reaction was to talk down to her and dismiss negotiation (I have never pretended Finia is a nice person, and I definitely think her previous appearance supports her being dismissive and judgemental of people she finds not properly 'civilized').

Ausk supported taking the payment as is, and Anaerion seemed to agree with Finia that there was little in the way of heavy risk (which I read as agreeing to terms, as well). Kanli is, as usual for Kanli, on a different page from the world at large, so in general I kind of figure he's game for anything.

I'll apologize again for not spending a lot of time calculating out the initial offer fully enough to make it reasonably enticing for characters at your levels. As a player, I tend to make a cursory acknowledgement of asking 'what's it pay?' but don't spend much time worrying about how much, since employer compensation is usually a pittance compared to the treasure gained from encounters. I suppose I've always taken it as a given that's the real way adventurers earned their fortunes IC, and they 'hired on' more to kill time between looting bad guys than because that was their primary revenue stream.

Seriously, though, if you can't see Kalgor going anywhere for less than 1000 gp guaranteed on delivery, throw that up IC, and I'll just take jackslate45's suggestion and try to note it properly so I don't flub the gold calculations at adventure's end.[/sblock]

[sblock=ooc]Oh well, too far. That shoots down that idea.

Kalgor will take the job at 200 gp for his cut. He will grumble about it during the long trip home, but he will do it.

The honor question was that he wouldn't abandon a job because something more interesting came up. So, I was just metagame fishing to make sure we will be finishing Finia's request by the end of the adventure. (The red herring gets done too.)

Hey, that looks like just a big lake to me. How is the boat getting back to Venza? Just kidding. Between adventure time is for the most part irrelevant.
[/sblock]

OOC: If Anaerion is level 7, Dimension door to the gate, walk in, dimension door away. ;p

Tyrien, Half-elven Archeress

[sblock=OOC]I guess I did not read carefully enough. I thought we were offered 1000gp each, I asked for 10000gp each and then got 2000gp each. While I did not even roll, I was taking it as a DM gift. My mistake.
I agree that as journeyman adventurers, 200gp each for courier mission of such length with a promise of danger is a crappy deal that our characters would not touch. That is barely enough for 1st level characters.

However, with TBG, you can make the reward 3000gp each (which translates to ~96 days) with the OOC caveat that it is justifying the TBG. Unless this is a mini-adventure we should be playing it for at least that long, correct?

Anyway, back to IC action. [/sblock]Tyrien looks puzzled as she finally realizes that her skills at higher math and trade negotiation are lacking.

"Someone with more skill with words should get us a better deal, I think Finia is trying to rip us off."

[sblock=Mini Stats]Initiative: +7 Perception: +11 (low-light vision)
AC: 20 (15 flat-footed, 15 Touch)
HP: 40 Current: 40
CMB: +6 CMD: 21(16ff) Fort: +5 Reflex: +9 Will: +4
+2 Will vs. Enchantments
Special: Immune to Magical Sleep
Current Conditions in Effect: PBS, Precise Shot, Arcane Strike (+1 Dmg), Resistance, Ioun Stone illumination, Deadly Aim (-2Att/+4dmg)
Current Weapon in Hand: Longbow
Chakrams: 10/10 Remaining

Bardic Performance: 5/5 Rounds Remaining
Spells Remaining: Cantrips: (Message, Resistance, Mending, Prestidigitation)
1st Level 2/2 (Cure Light Wounds, Timely Inspiration)[/sblock]___________________________________________

Tyrien e'Adrianne

Finia seems to almost pout as the party seems reluctant to hire on. As the silence and low-voiced debate continues, her chilly composure begins to crack.

"I can see you're the hardened sort, and the plight of my poor house pales next to the lifestyle your kind tend to lead. I'll cut to the chase: I'm authorized to offer each of you [200 + TGP] for your trouble, but only upon successful delivery of the documents, and I cannot go any higher."

[sblock=ooc]I personally find trying to do extra math at the end to separate out the encounter-balanced payment with the TBG segment of payment, and then figure out remaining TBG on top of that, well, something I'd rather avoid. That doesn't mean others don't find it amazingly simple, or that they aren't a majority; it just means I find the prospect unappealing.

Since the folks who are looking for an increased hire-on incentive all appear to concur that adding TBG would lead to a value they consider more appropriate, let's try this. It may or may not break folks' verisimilitude, but maybe we can just say the value in brackets is a word in Common that doesn't translate to English but that all your characters know and call it good?[/sblock]

"Good dear Finia," Kanli interjects, "That would be most satisfactory! I'm sure everyone here would be more than willing to pitch in at these levels. After all, you are not only offering us gold, but a grand opportunity to assist the Granite Hierophant and his twenty thousand handmaidens, whether or not the frogs make another assault on his anterior."

Scarcely letting his position sink in, he adds, "I declare this negotiation over! Come, let us get to the task of moving, not sitting in a cramped room and discussing coins that do not exist! Are you in? Yes? Good! Good!"

Kanli stands, making a grand sweep on his arms. "Come, I say, for you are all to travel with the Sanguine Prophet, to the far-off land of Heth, and we shall find our rewards there! We shall meet great flocks of birds, with the finest wine flowing through their veins! We shall climb clandestine mountains of gold, drink the sweet honey of Many-Veiled Platinum Blossom, and meet foul beasts overjoyed by our presence and showering us with gifts to release them from their tempestuous existence. And all by saying a single, simple word!"

Kanli turns to Finia, stretching out his arms. His vermilion-stained hands seem almost larger, more welcoming, more present.

"Yes."

[sblock=ooc]
Hey, let's just get this adventure started, okay? Negotiations are good and all, but this is Pathfinder, not Shadowrun. Our money comes from finding treasure, not sitting around getting paid like wageslaves. Let's trust the GM to make it worth our while, no matter what the basic pay structure says.
[/sblock]

"Guard your papers. Play the dumb guards to sneak in. Abandon our post.
Guard your papers. Get your papers signed. Guard your papers. Get on a ship. Guard your papers. Come back here. Give you papers. Don't take jobs from house what's their name in the future."
...
"OK, yes."

"Play?... rrright."