Broken NDAs or Elaborate Trolls?

Quickleaf · Feb 17, 2012

Just a quick comment: I'd prefer not to be greeted with a synopsis of this "broken NDAs or elaborate trolls?" thread topic when jumping on to EN World's homepage.

Either it feeds trolls or it reports on something distasteful. I don't have anything against it being discussed just don't think it needs attention drawn to it.

EN World is classier than that.

-Aaron

avin · Feb 17, 2012

After my 4E experience I don't think moving back to confirm criticals would please me... [MENTION=73683]Dannager[/MENTION] is right, 4E provides a elegant solution for criticals. In my humble opinion reasons for rolling critical come more from "I like how it worked on 3E" than a reason *I* could agree... looks more like a matter of taste.

That said, this is a perfect example of DDN's modular rules.

On a side note, we should have OPTIONAL rules for crits and fumbles for those who want to roll, just like that cards I see on Paizo's website

Bedrockgames · Feb 17, 2012

I cant stand 4E but IMO confirming criticals was a very bad rule. It just nerfed te game for me.

I'm A Banana · Feb 17, 2012

I gotta say, "max damage" crits are kind of boring to me, and confirmation rolls are tedious.

A roll of 20 hits and deals extra damage automagically = my fave. It's too common? These are frickin' heroes fighting frickin' monsters, I'm comfortable with uncommon things happening all the time. It's too powerful? Guess your weak, fragile, precious little porcelian crystal game system can't handle an extra d8 or so. It's too unpredictable? Oh please, someone call the waaaahmbulance! There is chaos in my ordered system! THIS PEA UNDER MY MATTRESS IS DRIVING ME CRAZY!

I am perfectly fine with a 5% chance of auto-buttkicking awesome in my games.

Of course, the other side of this is that I am perfeclty fine with a 5% chance of auto-abject failure in my games. Rolling a 20 is awesome. Rolling a 1 sucks.

This goes back to my desire to add more moments of WAHOO and more moments of ARGH back into the game. Rolling a 20 or a 1 should be a Big Deal in my books. These carefully balanced and cautiously considered crits wang some serious chung.

Oh, and just so the reasonability police don't get all up in my grill: The above is an opinion based on the currently available informaiton and is in no way indicative of an opinion that may develop as further information and changes are released, as all opinions have room to change based on new information. Derp.

RHGreen · Feb 17, 2012

FitzTheRuke said:
I think it's the best of both worlds. Has a little simulation, but it's not as cumbersome as some are trying to make it sound.

All you'd need is a little spot on the character sheet that says "Rest" and lists the HP's you'd receive. Like a 1st level character with a 12 con would say:

Rest: 1/1/6/6 (Listed as 10 min / 10 min / 1 hour / 8 hour)

As you take your rests you just scratch 'em out and and the HP and erase your scratches in the morning (of course, that means you wouldn't need to scratch the extended rest.

Not exactly a lot of bookeeping. I think one of the problems people have with it is it SOUNDS complicated, not that it IS complicated.

Besides, without going all the way to "Warrior Needs Food... Badly" I've always wondered why rests weren't more connected to breaking-out-the-rations meal times. (Seriously!) This makes breakfast, lunch, dinner, and a night's sleep.

All things *I* need to regain hit points.

I've been meaning to flesh out something of this nature.

My idea was to have meals have a certain quality nature to them in the effort to have mechanics encourage roleplaying.

If you are in the desert and your meal consists of a raw dead snake it wont give back much HP.

If you are in a city and go to the best inn and have a meal fit for a king it will give back a lot more HP.

If the ranger uses his nature/tracking/hunting skill to kill a healthy, nimble, fast and possibly lethal stag + your wizard herbalist forages for some safe/non-poisonous flora + your cleric purifies some fresh spring water + your dwarf makes a safe and roaring fire + your halfling uses his cooking skill/theme tp prepare the food - - - then it should give back a lot lot more HP for all the skill/roleplaying effort.

Dannager · Feb 17, 2012

BryonD said:
I'm also certain those things reliably happen 5% of the time at your table.

I'm certain that those things reliably happen roughly 2.5% of the time at your table, perhaps as high as 3%!

In my games the players know that crits mean more than just "hey look it landed on the 20".

Absolutely. Instead, they know that crits mean that the die happened to land on one or more numbers that correspond to a critical hit.

The rapier guy can get that fun a lot more often.

So can the daggermaster in a 4e game!

The great axe guy gets its it a bit less, but knows he is getting a huge boon when it does come.

Hey, same in 4e! Greataxes have the high crit property!

The players know that sometimes the monster will crit them, but their destiny is more in there hands than simply hoping a 20 doesn't come up.

In what way? That their AC still comes into play? Remember, in 4e it's only a crit if your attack would have hit normally. Otherwise it's just a regular hit. AC still comes into play, and is still used to determine whether the attack was a critical hit or not.

FitzTheRuke · Feb 17, 2012

AnonGemini said:
I've been meaning to flesh out something of this nature.

My idea was to have meals have a certain quality nature to them in the effort to have mechanics encourage roleplaying.

If you are in the desert and your meal consists of a raw dead snake it wont give back much HP.

If you are in a city and go to the best inn and have a meal fit for a king it will give back a lot more HP.

If the ranger uses his nature/tracking/hunting skill to kill a healthy, nimble, fast and possibly lethal stag + your wizard herbalist forages for some safe/non-poisonous flora + your cleric purifies some fresh spring water + your dwarf makes a safe and roaring fire + your halfling uses his cooking skill/theme tp prepare the food - - - then it should give back a lot lot more HP for all the skill/roleplaying effort.

Sounds fun, though I don't know that you'd want them to have to do even a small skill challenge *every* time they want to take a rest, but it's nice to make them at least give it a little thought now and then.

BryonD · Feb 17, 2012

Dannager said:
I'm certain that those things reliably happen roughly 2.5% of the time at your table, perhaps as high as 3%!

You would be wrong. If anything 3E crits happen more often because of the ubiquitous longswords and dagger having a threat range of 19-20. You have pegged the frequency wrong and you are also completely wrong about the reliability. In the approach you advocate it truly is a reliable 5%. In the approach I advocate there are a great number of variables that can change the expected rate from session to session.

Absolutely. Instead, they know that crits mean that the die happened to land on one or more numbers that correspond to a critical hit.

And they know narrative elements of the characters they build and the threats they face have a direct influence on the corresponding number. You can't draw an equivalence between a 20 is a 20 is a 20 and and valid ranges built based on a narrative driven logic.

So can the daggermaster in a 4e game!

Hey, same in 4e! Greataxes have the high crit property!

Shrug. I'm glad that 4E is a bit less bad in some corner cases.

In what way? That their AC still comes into play? Remember, in 4e it's only a crit if your attack would have hit normally. Otherwise it's just a regular hit. AC still comes into play, and is still used to determine whether the attack was a critical hit or not.

Their AC ONLY comes into play IF that only hit on a 20 is a factor. For the system I like it comes into play for every instance.

And, as I already described, the fact that "the math works" in 4E makes your loophole just another corner case.

Riley · Feb 17, 2012

Quickleaf said:
Just a quick comment: I'd prefer not to be greeted with a synopsis of this "broken NDAs or elaborate trolls?" thread topic when jumping on to EN World's homepage.

Either it feeds trolls or it reports on something distasteful. I don't have anything against it being discussed just don't think it needs attention drawn to it.

EN World is classier than that.

-Aaron

New-edition leaks and rumors were the foundation upon which ENWorld was built. They are exactly what I want to see when I check the News page.

the Jester · Feb 17, 2012

Bedrockgames said:
I dont know how genuine these "leaks" are but if they are, this is very disapointing. It seems like WOTC doesnt really understand how much people disike the gamey and dissociated stuff from 4E. Maybe they have tunnel vision from culling too much feedback on their own website.

How much "some people" dislike the gamey and dissociated stuff from 4E. Plenty of people like that stuff just fine.