Equipment and Persnickety Details

Water Bob

Adventurer
As GM, I don't want a PC to fire 27 arrows when his quiver really only holds 18. I don't want a PC to fight through half a dungeon using a shortsword and a shield, then pull a two-handed sword that he has no method to carry easily outside of his hands.

These are persnickety details that GMs think about (maybe not all GMs) and players hate that any attention is shot this way at all.

I look at it as part of the challenge of the game--supplies, food, weight, encumbrance, what you have in your hands, etc. I try not to bog the game down with it, and I sometimes use this stuff to help a player really visualize his character.

I mean, an RPG character shouldn't be akin to a computer game character--like those in Skyrim that can swim in their armor and carry 27 different types of swords in their backpack.





So, the question becomes, "How do you manage the bookkeeping without bogging down the game?"

At first, I started my current campaign using a piece of paper for each character, calling it an equipment sheet. Then, I switch to a piece of paper that broke up equipment by carried location.

I found both of these systems lacking. As equipment comes and goes, gets damaged, and the like, the players make an awful mess of these sheets. I always felt like I had to "get onto" my players to take the last loot haul list and separate the stuff to the various characters in the party.

Then, I had the "bad" idea of taking this out of the players hands and keeping it myself. This runs across my grain, though, because, as GM, I've got enough to keep track of, and the players should do their own housekeeping.

Finally, I remembered a system that I used with a Classic Traveller game years ago. The system worked like a charm--so good that I can't believe I forgot to do something similar with my current game.

What I did in the Traveller game was have one sheet of paper per piece of equipment. If players traded or lost equipment, they simply took the required sheets and passed them around. Stuff left on the ship? They gave whatever it was to me?

I found that playing equipment this way gave the players a much bigger appreciation for all the stuff each character carried. Looking at a stack of paper to be placed in their PC 3-ring binders felt like a lot of stuff. If the equipment had a special modification or was damage, you just noted it on the sheet. Some sheets had a lot of info on them, and some had next to nothing.

I don't know I didn't remember this when I started my current game.





So, now, I'm using index cards. Each card represents one piece of equipment. If a character loses his boots, then I take away that card. If a dagger is lost in a fight, then I take away that card. If a player gives his PC's favorite necklace to another, the card is transplanted from one PC folder to the next.

This game, I'm using these plastic file folders with a zip lock pocket on the front. Character sheet goes in the main folder area, and these equipment index cards go in the pocket.

One time, PC got hit with a breath weapon, and I was looking to see which of his equipment would suffer. The player simply pulled out his equipment cards and arranged them in front of himself as if tacking the cards onto a stickfigure, so it was real easy to see where his equipment was hit.




I think this is a pretty good system, but I posted it here to invite other ideas.

Do you have a good system for tracking and placing equipment?
 

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Loonook

First Post
As GM, I don't want a PC to fire 27 arrows when his quiver really only holds 18. I don't want a PC to fight through half a dungeon using a shortsword and a shield, then pull a two-handed sword that he has no method to carry easily outside of his hands.

These are persnickety details that GMs think about (maybe not all GMs) and players hate that any attention is shot this way at all.

I look at it as part of the challenge of the game--supplies, food, weight, encumbrance, what you have in your hands, etc. I try not to bog the game down with it, and I sometimes use this stuff to help a player really visualize his character.

I mean, an RPG character shouldn't be akin to a computer game character--like those in Skyrim that can swim in their armor and carry 27 different types of swords in their backpack.

It is impossible
aboxer1.jpg


Totally Impossible
51YjS4KMdkL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


For someone to carry a two-handed sword without it being in their hands.

It is also difficult to carry multiple swords along with it
DBSW896BK3_model.jpg


Let's be honest. You can easily carry a shield, two swords, numerous daggers, wands, etc. on your person without necessarily carrying them in-hand. Your original question about whether we should keep track of ammunition and other sundries? Totally agreed.

But if we're really going for it, most quivers are going to hold a dozen arrows or less. 18 seems a bit high, unless you're talking an enormous quiver.

I think that your idea of what can be done and what can be done varies... And you should look into it.

Now, onto bookkeeping: we keep track of everything within reason, and if there is an extra bullet that was forgotten or a charge? It happens, heat of battle. Even movies forget to count shots :).

Slainte,

-Loonook.
 

Water Bob

Adventurer
It is impossible


Totally Impossible


For someone to carry a two-handed sword without it being in their hands.


You didn't quite read my entire quote.

I'll highlight the part you missed.

Originally Posted by Water Bob
As GM, I don't want a PC to fire 27 arrows when his quiver really only holds 18. I don't want a PC to fight through half a dungeon using a shortsword and a shield, then pull a two-handed sword that he has no method to carry easily outside of his hands.




With the pics that you show, obviously the person does have a method to carry the weapon easily outside of his hands.



But if we're really going for it, most quivers are going to hold a dozen arrows or less. 18 seems a bit high, unless you're talking an enormous quiver.

I think that your idea of what can be done and what can be done varies... And you should look into it.

With the quiver, I was going by the old AD&D quivers that held a score of arrows. We haven't come across bows in my current (and first) 3E game, so I don't really know off the top of my head what the standard is.





Now, onto bookkeeping: we keep track of everything within reason, and if there is an extra bullet that was forgotten or a charge? It happens, heat of battle. Even movies forget to count shots :).

Sure, things happen. But, I'm trying to minimize errors and keep the game from being bogged down in persnickety bookkeeping details.

And...we track everything--even socks and loincloth. (Sounds harder than it is--with that stuff, you usually write it down once and never have to revisit it.)
 

Piratecat

Sesquipedalian
Unless it's an egregious violation I ignore it once they've gone on an adventure or two. I find that such an un-fun part of the game that the group usually ends up with some sort of magic item that obviates the need for most inventory management. Sack of holding, spoon of gruel, dimensional quiver -- items that make it easier to adventure without upsetting combat balance.

I used to love inventory management, honestly, but play time is precious. I don't want to spend it futzing around with how many pounds each character is carrying.
 
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[OMENRPG]Ben

First Post
I think this is very helpful for grittier games. Maybe not in D&D, but a game like Conan or even my own system (OMEN) resource management is very important. Sometimes I love to play super heroic games, and then I don't really care to track inventory as long as people have a loose grasp of stuff such as who is carrying it. If my character has a 20 strength with an upper level encumbrance of 300 lbs I don't really care.

But if I want to play a more "serious" game, or less "heroic" game, then I think this system works great.
 

SkredlitheOgre

Explorer
I'm with [MENTION=2]Piratecat[/MENTION]. Honestly, I don't really care for even more bookkeeping than the game already calls for.

My PF group is playing Rise of the Runelords and we killed a monster (no spoilers) and between us all, we carted her body back to an armorer/crafter. One player got a sweet set of boots and we all got backpacks made of her skin, which we had enchanted to work as a communal bag of holding. Everything put in one bag is accessible by another. This has led to interdimensional slap fights, which are pretty funny. Reach into one backpack and out another, slap the person in the head.

Anyway, before each mission, the group says that they're going to 'restock on arrows/bolts/rations/etc.' and they all go in the bag. Need another arrow? Reach into the bag. Hungry? Reach into the bag.

We've never figured out how big the space inside the bags is (this was the DMs idea, by the way), but it has "just enough" of everything we need.
 

Water Bob

Adventurer
And...I wasn't really looking for whether other GMs think keeping track of persnickety details is a good idea. I was trying to see if anybody had a better idea than mine when keeping track.
 

Water Bob

Adventurer
Anyway, before each mission, the group says that they're going to 'restock on arrows/bolts/rations/etc.' and they all go in the bag. Need another arrow? Reach into the bag. Hungry? Reach into the bag.

I haven't played actual D&D in years, but from what I remember in AD&D, sharp items place in a bag of holding had bad consequences as they could rupture the bag.

Is that still a characteristic of such bags in 3E?
 

Piratecat

Sesquipedalian
And...I wasn't really looking for whether other GMs think keeping track of persnickety details is a good idea. I was trying to see if anybody had a better idea than mine when keeping track.
Yep, not to do it. :)

That said, if I was going to I'd opt for the method with the least makework. I'd probably use Excel or an iphone app to track items. That way you can automatically figure out weight/encumbrance, and it's easy to deduct for each day's food.

3e bags of holding are, I believe, pierced and ruined by unsheathed sharp objects; they don't have the catastrophic dimension-rending effects of earlier editions, though.
 

Janx

Hero
You didn't quite read my entire quote.

I'll highlight the part you missed.

[/I]



With the pics that you show, obviously the person does have a method to carry the weapon easily outside of his hands.

You're getting persnickety. Since 3e, weapons are assumed to come with Scabbards. You don't have to buy them seperately, and it's implied the sword has the appropriate scabbard/frog/baldric/hanger for the PC to carry it on their person.

What's more apparent is that when your hands are free, there is a limit to how many weapons can be worn about one's person.

1 big two-handed sword on the back or 2 longish or smaller swords on the back
2 longish or smaller swords on the hip
2 daggers on the belt (with the other swords)
1-3 daggers per leg (boot, thigh strap, etc)
1-3 daggers at the base of the neck
1-2 quivers of 20 arrows each (tops) in a "sword" slot
1-2 daggers per arm (wrist bracer sheath thingy?)

I agree there's a limit. Folks can dicker about what that limit is...

I think a body slot system could handle it, akin to what I've outlined.
 

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