Combat Reports on the Best 3rd Lvl Spells

Rashak Mani · Jan 19, 2002

I´m an Illusionist specialist and we have a Sorceror in the group as well... we will in todays session get our 3rd level spells... was wondering what most would recommend choosing. (No Forgotten Realms stuff thou)

My dillema is if we should vary spells... fireball is nice and so forth but both getting it seems unecessary. Am I wrong ?

For my Illusion "slot" I thought Displacement is too limited... rnds per level only. So Invisibility 10' rad is better no ?

Other non illusion spells I thought were neat:

Slow Stinking Cloud Dispel Magic Haste Ice Burst Lightining Bolt

Would like comments on the usability of Lightning Bolt, Ice Burst (d4+1 per lvl vs d6 fireball), Slow spell. Is fireball to hard to use once melee is joined ? Want "combat" reports on these spells... especially use vs NPCs.

Wicht · Jan 19, 2002

My summation: Lightning bolt is much better than fireball for melee in the hands of an intelligent caster. Fireball is much better than lightning bolt for ambushes and room clearing in the hands of just about anyone.

Rashak Mani · Jan 19, 2002

I like your skull... good choice

Now the lightning is better for me (wizard) or the sorceror ?
How hard is it to use Fireball without hitting party members ?
You would choose which one ?

graydoom · Jan 19, 2002

d4+1 gives teh same average damage as d6. The d6 can roll higher, but it can also roll lower. Essentailly, "Do you feel lucky?"

Slow is a very useful spell against fighters. They fail the save, and a slowed fighter can't make full attacks!

Haste is one of the best spells ever.

I would advise you and the other guy to not take many of the same spells. More different spells means you can handle more situations with your magic.

Lightning bolt and fireball can both be useful... just look at Wicht's post.

Dingleberry · Jan 19, 2002

My players have used lightning bolt in melee with devastating effect, especially if the whole party participates in the "line 'em up" strategy. Our sorcerer runs into problems periodically using fireball in melee - not only because of the wide area of affect, but also because of the risk of premature explosion when sending the bead through combat areas (you can usually get around this by sending it over everyone).

If your DM allows spells from Relics & Rituals, dragon's breath provides excellent flexibility for a sorcerer.

That all being said, I'd make sure the party has ready access to dispel magic before considering ANY of the offensive spells.

graydoom · Jan 19, 2002

Yeah, dispel magic is a must. Greater Dispel Magic is needed at higher levels, too.

Wicht · Jan 19, 2002

Rashak Mani said:
I like your skull... good choice

Now the lightning is better for me (wizard) or the sorceror ?
How hard is it to use Fireball without hitting party members ?
You would choose which one ?

As a Wizard I would add all the spells to your repertoire I could. For the Sorceror, I would think that lightning bolt would be most preferable if you find yourself often in thick melee - fireball is just too limited and I find there are a lot of situations it just isn't practical. Don't get me wrong, I like fireball and if your sorceror wants to take out armies at a time, it is the way to go, but for dungeon crawling as a sorceror I would take Lightning.

Haste and some of the others are nice but let me agree that I would make sure to always have a dispel magic handy.

MythandLore · Jan 19, 2002

Wicht said:
As a Wizard I would add all the spells to your repertoire I could. For the Sorceror, I would think that lightning bolt would be most preferable if you find yourself often in thick melee - fireball is just too limited and I find there are a lot of situations it just isn't practical. Don't get me wrong, I like fireball and if your sorceror wants to take out armies at a time, it is the way to go, but for dungeon crawling as a sorceror I would take Lightning.

Haste and some of the others are nice but let me agree that I would make sure to always have a dispel magic handy.

I agree.
Fly is a pretty good spell too.

d12 · Jan 19, 2002

Fly is a very, very useful spell. One of you should have it. Even in dungeons it increases mobility incredibly.

Lighting Bolt is slightly more useful that fireball for all the reasons people have already listed. Your sorceror should take lightning bolt and the wizard should take fireball because the wizard can always get lighting bolt later but the sorceror may not want to spend two precious 3rd level slots. Does that make sense?

graydoom · Jan 19, 2002

On Fireball vs Lightning Bolt...

I've never had problems using fireball, but I can easily how they could come up. Fireball is a great spell for enemies at a distance and for clustered enemies. Usually, in melee, I've found that by putting the focal point of the fireball a bit behind all the fighting, the outer edge catches the baddies without hurting your friendly neighborhood melee fighters.

I've also had tons of fun with lightning bolt. If enemies are marching in a line, in a narrow passage, or lined up parallel to your fighters, it can do wonders. It can be problematic to get into position for optimal use of it, though.

As a Wizard, you should probably memorize one or two of both. As a Sorcerer, you should choose whichever you think is more useful, and only learn it. Can't afford to use up the limited number of spells known.