Combat Reports on the Best 3rd Lvl Spells

Rashak Mani

First Post
Nice replies... what about Slow ? I just read up on it... and somehow its strikes me as very very useful !

Opinions on slow spell ?

Haste is like getting quicken spell for 5 rnds... ? You cast twice number spells...

As for the Sorceror I agree that he should choose one and only one damage spell... he will take ages to get another 3rdlvl spell thou... which second spell for the sorceror ?
 

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MythandLore

First Post
Rashak Mani said:
Nice replies... what about Slow ? I just read up on it... and somehow its strikes me as very very useful !

Opinions on slow spell ?

Haste is like getting quicken spell for 5 rnds... ? You cast twice number spells...

As for the Sorceror I agree that he should choose one and only one damage spell... he will take ages to get another 3rdlvl spell thou... which second spell for the sorceror ?

Slow is really really good.
My parties have destroyed some stuff I didn't think we could using slow.
 

graydoom

First Post
As I said above, slow is great! Stops enemies from running, and really cripples fighters. A slowed fighter can't make full attacks! It can also dispel haste, which is very useful.

For the sorcerer, I might advise Dispel Magic or Haste. You'll probably be casting both of those a lot.
 

Wicht

Hero
graydoom said:
I've never had problems using fireball, but I can easily how they could come up. Fireball is a great spell for enemies at a distance and for clustered enemies. Usually, in melee, I've found that by putting the focal point of the fireball a bit behind all the fighting, the outer edge catches the baddies without hurting your friendly neighborhood melee fighters.

Unless you have a DM like me that rules you have to make a touch attack to strike the wall, otherwise that little bead has a chance of running into someone who might accidently get in the way - that can lead to nasty results.
 

Terraism

Explorer
A second and a question...

I'd second the people suggesting Haste, Lightning Bolt, Slow and Fly. Definitely good ideas, all of them.

Now - I do question - are your characters the same level? (I'm asking because my group always tends to forget that sorcerers don't get 3rd level spells as soon as wizards - that might be something junk to find out.)

Also - I've been wondering for a while - can a sorcerer teach a spell to a wizard? It wouldn't go the other way, but I'd think... hmm.
 

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
Sorceror MUST have Haste.

Haste should always be a sorceror's first 3rd level choice. Two spells a round really lets him bring his guns to bear.

And face it, everybody likes having a sorceror nearby to Haste him.

Second choice, a damaging 3rd level spell.

Next choice, Dispel Magic.

You can swap your damaging spell and Dispel Magic if you prefer to be the kind of sorceror who plays defense instead of offense.

But Haste... always your best first choice!


Wulf
 

Captain America

First Post
Different view

The Sorcerer selection is likely to be raw power, at first. The traditional order is to take an offense, then defense, then versiltility. As such:

Offense:
-- Lightning Bolt, the better of the attack spells.
-- Fireball, if you commonly launch ambushes.
-- Haste, if the party chainsaws are numerous.
-- Vampiric Touch, if you have few healers or want flavor.
-- Summon Monster III, the most versitile of all.

Defense:
-- Dispel Magic, absolutely amazing.
-- Protection from Elements, if you commonly fight such.
-- Gust of Wind, knocks out flyers and gasses.
-- Slow, if you face many Hasting casters.

Versitility:
-- Magic Circle Against Evil, stops outsiders, cold.
-- Tongues, if you're the 'Face' of the group.
-- Major Image, always has use.
-- Fly, *the* movement spell.

For the Wizard, the criteria is different. You don't need it now and need it often, you need to be flexible. Let the Sorcer handle the blasting, while you handle things no one but a Mage can. As examples:

-- Stinking Cloud, for when you need them alive.
-- Clairvoyance, for knowledge is power.
-- Suggestion, for the soft touch.
-- Illusory Script, for when you do courrier plots.
-- Gaseous Form, because nobody else can.
-- Shrink Item, because, by golly, a pocket campfire gets used.

The Wizard, more than the sorcerer, can afford to be kind of floopy with his selection, as he gets more than the Sorcerer, and can always gather up scrolls. He's also MUCH more likely to pick up item creation feats, which can be used to 'Siphon' off from the Sorcerer.

If, for example, the Sorcerer takes Lightning Bolt, the Wizard can take Shrink Item, for planning ahead, and Clairvoyance, plus gets Craft Wand at 5th level for his Wizared feat. The two then work together to make the Wizard a Wand of Lightning Bolts (5th level) so that he, too, has offensive punch when needed.

This lets you, for example, store a spare set of armor for a fighter, with Shrink Item, look ahead when in danger with your memorized spells, with Clairvoyance, and still have blasting power, in the form of Lightning Bolt.

Heck, you can get him to help you scribe a scroll of Lightning Bolt, then canabalize it to learn the spell and write it into your own book, if you just *have* to have an attack spell.

The Sorcerer should next get Dispell Magic, while the Wizard gets more diverse action. Invisibility Sphere if you're a group that often needs stealth, for example, or Greater Magic Weapon, if you plan on enchanting down the road.

Just remember: The Mage does wild things, the sorcerer does the basics. Keep it that way, and you'll always be happy.

-- Cap!
 

Lord Pendragon

First Post
Re: Sorceror MUST have Haste.

Wulf Ratbane said:
Haste should always be a sorceror's first 3rd level choice. Two spells a round really lets him bring his guns to bear.

And face it, everybody likes having a sorceror nearby to Haste him.

...

But Haste... always your best first choice!


Wulf

I play a wizard, and there was never a truer statement. Haste is a fantastic spell, is just as good cast on yourself or another party member, and never loses its usefulness. At 20th-level your spellcaster will most likely still be memorizing it on a daily basis.

Worry about Lightning Bolt vs. Fireball when you get your next spell, but for your first, nothing beats Haste.
 

MasterOfHeaven

First Post
Well

I have to agree with Wulf about the Sorcerers third level spell of choice. Haste boosts the power of any character significantly, giving the target extra attacks or spells, movement and even AC. If he wants to go for damage, I'd say Lightning Bolt or Fireball are his best choices, of course. Fly is another spell that will likely see a lot of use.



For the Wizard... as Captain America has said, the Wizard is not about damage, but versatility. Get one or two spells for the basic damage/buffing, and then get the spells the Sorcerer can't afford to, like Tongues, Water Breathing, Phantom Steed and so on, allowing you to help your party in unusual situations. Use Tongues so you can talk with any creature, Water Breathing to allow your party to go through an underground river, and Phantom Steed for that fast transport to deliver the vital message to the King, and so on.

The Sorcerer is better than the Wizard at combat, but the Wizard makes up for it by being able to use his magic to deal with the situations where combat isn't an option. Anyway, good luck and I hope the spells you guys choose will work out for you.
 

Rashak Mani

First Post
We´re the same level but 6th lvl wont be too far off it seems... unfortunately the Sorceror had a close encounter with the falling rock trap kind :rolleyes: in yesterdays session. Since the group is an evil one with little love for their companions I have become the only Arcane magic user.

I took fireball... mainly because it damages always... save only makes the damage smaller. Our DM is throwing big stuff at us and the chances of overcoming enemy saves arent too good. Better to hurt em a little than not at all.

I will be getting Slow spell next level thou... seems very good.

Thanks for all your replies.
 

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