Grumpy RPG Reviews

Kaodi · Feb 26, 2012

In any case, a small point on a related but different topic brought up in the summary under the episode we have all been discussing:

I am not convinced that the non-existence of an Africa in fantasy settings is an adequate reason for the term " black " instead of " African " to be desirable. Fantasy settings to not have an Asia or an Orient (in the sense we employ the term) either, nor does the distinction of being " First Nations " , " Native Canadian " , " Inuit " , " Meztiso " , or the like have any meaning there. Yet no one ever refers to fantasy analogs of those people as " yellow " or " red " . And for the love of God, I hope they never do.

Lwaxy · Feb 26, 2012

Kaodi said:
IYet no one ever refers to fantasy analogs of those people as " yellow " or " red " . And for the love of God, I hope they never do.

Yeah we do. Always did. Why not? Unless the respective cultures have a different skin color, our version of the Mayan/Aztec cultures are actually black.

Seriously, while the color designations, same as white and black, are kinda not accurate (I consider myself more pink and my ex was definitely brown) I don't get what the problem with it is. It's just a base color designation. It's stuff nobody needs to get stuck up about.

Thunderfoot · Feb 27, 2012

I agree, I have no problem describing myself as white and neither does society at large. I have never been described as European-American, Slavic-American or anything else when describing my race (except for the official Caucasian.)

With no offense to anyone else, skin color is a great descriptor. My personal opinion is that the term African-American should be discontinued for American of African decent and only because the Africans I know don't really have a high opinion of blacks from America. (Their reasons are probably more racists than anything I have ever heard in the States, so I won't go into them here, but they were very....adamant.)

Yellow, red, brown, black, white, pink, green, fuchsia... frankly, it doesn't matter. Another thing the Military taught me from my stint in the late 80s early 90s....color blindness.

Dannyalcatraz · Feb 27, 2012

With no offense to anyone else, skin color is a great descriptor

Yup...and I'm orange.

Actually, this reminds me of my college days. At one point, my social group included several guys named Brian.*. So there we were, the assembled non-Brians, trying to talk about one of the Brians...trying to figure out which would be best to ask about doing some task.

So the conversation went around in circles:

"Why not Brian _______?"

"Which one is he?"

"You know, the one who _______ all the time?"

"I don't know him!"

"Yeah ya do..."

And getting nowhere...until the last one:

Why not Brian _______?"

"Which one is he?"

"You know" *whispering* "black Brian!"

All: "Oooooohhh, BLACK Brian!"

Yes, that stuck as his new nickname. (Years before Black Debbie/White Debbie on Sealab 2021.)

* which reminds me of HS, since my graduating class of 27 included 4 Davids, 4 Jon/Johns/Jonathans and a John-David.

Dannyalcatraz · Feb 27, 2012

Dannyalcatraz said:
Yes, that stuck as his new nickname. (Years before Black Debbie/White Debbie on Sealab 2021.)

Which went like this:

Marco: Well, Debbie thinks this is all about her biological clock.
Stormy: She stopped screaming enough to tell you that?
Marco: No no no no, the other Debbie. Debbie the teacher.
Stormy: Oh, you mean... black Debbie.
Sparks: Woah woah woah, why is she... black Debbie?
Stormy: Not in a bad way, it's just to tell them apart because she's... black.
Sparks: Well, why don't you call her Debbie, and call the other one... white Debbie.
Stormy: White Debbie? That's stupid! I know she's white.
Marco: Then why do you call the other Debbie "black Debbie?" You know she's black!
Stormy: Hey, first off, I really don't think we should be talking about this in front of Dr. Quinn.
Quinn: Listen man, you're missing the point. What if everybody went around calling you "white Stormy?"
Stormy: You mean there's a black Stormy?
Quinn: ... No.

Lwaxy · Feb 27, 2012

Great, I didn't know that one.

Reminds me of a story my ex told of oil representatives in the Nigerian company of his dad. There were 3 white guys, and they were called white X, white Y, white z all the time until they got a 4th guy with the same name as X.

The actually gifted him a yellow cap to wear when he came around as they found no other distinction they could easily use

Oh and the term "Caucasian" really annoys me. I'm not from the Caucasus area, I'm German, for the sake of all pantheons :erm:

Doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things of course.

Grumpy RPG Reviews · Feb 27, 2012

Kaodi said:
I am not convinced that the non-existence of an Africa in fantasy settings is an adequate reason for the term " black " instead of " African " to be desirable.

What term should be used?

Piratecat · Feb 27, 2012

Gently steering us back to the topic: blacks in gaming. Steer. Steer.

Kaodi · Feb 27, 2012

Piratecat said:
Gently steering us back to the topic: blacks in gaming. Steer. Steer.

I do not know if it was your intention, but I am getting distinct impressions of Elan using his bardic music. If only we had a musical note smiley...

Hopefully this is what you meant by getting back on topic:

Robert mentions in his video (which took me forever to load once I finally started to watch it) depictions of African-influenced characters as 10% of the human characters. But my question is: are there not other races (or species, if you must) that could appropriately be depicted with dark skin? Any race that traditionally lives above ground I would think would be eligible at the very least (though since it is fantasy there is not really any reason dwarves and gnomes could not be either). At the very least, I think we should not be aiming for 10% of humans, but rather 10% of all humans, half-elves, elves, and halflings, and whatever other race with human skintones that lives in warm terrain.

Umbran · Feb 27, 2012

Kaodi said:
But my question is: are there not other races (or species, if you must) that could appropriately be depicted with dark skin?

I think you could do that, but might be missing the point just a tad.

From discussions I've had on the matter, I've come to understand that the tonal quality of the skin isn't the only issue, and maybe not even the central one. The skin color, to us, still implies a great deal about cultural background, and that is also important. Especially in a game where we usually idealize race to be equivalent to culture.

So, a dark-skinned dwarf is still a dwarf. He's not of the fantasy world's psuedo-African culture, and so will not quite fulfill the desired need - a desire to see the entire background, not just the skin color, given treatment and respect.