The One Hour Game, continued (BD&D as a baseline)

paladinm · Mar 20, 2012

So.. if we were to take Mr. Mearls' route and go back to BD&D as a "baseline".. Several questions come to mind:

1. Which version of BD&D would we use to build upon? We have OD&D, Holmes, B/X, and BECM. I personally prefer BECM, but that's just me.

2. If we could "cherry-pick" things from later versions of (A)D&D, what would we grab?

Here is my (initial, partial) list:

From 2e: Specialty priests and mages, and "kits"

From 3.x: Ascending armor class, unified XP and BAB, feats (for fighters and thieves), multiclassing

From 4e: LIMITED at-wills for wizards (magic missile, anyone?)

jodyjohnson · Mar 20, 2012

I'm very tempted to take B/X as a baseline and then cherry-pick from the other editions and end up with the equivalent of the 2 64 page books total.

If we have to wait 10-18 months or more for 5e anyway, I can cobble my own 'ideal' version of the game in that time between the net-decking on ENWorld and access to 35+ years of DnD.

B/X stats w/4e point buy. B/X xp for gold, 2e-4e other xp awards
3.x races. Some 3.x feats
Add 4e martial powers for feats
3e monster abilities - 4e style math and stat blocks or 1e stat blocks as needed. 4e action economy.

Probably 3.x spell systems.

Throw it all at the wall and see what sticks for my group - I don't need to please the multitude - just 5 or 6.

scruffygrognard · Mar 20, 2012

I'd prefer Moldvay Basic with the following tacked on:
1] AD&D multiclassing
2] Limited feats for non-casters (weapon finesse, specialization, two-weapon fighting, etc)
3] Ascending AC, max HP at 1st level, & 3 save types from 3.X (but with REF based on the better of INT/DEX, FORT based on the STR/CON and WILL based on WIS/CHA)
4] A simple skill system (something between SW Saga and 4th edition)
5] Limited at-will spells for casters
6] 3rd edition core races and no level limits (humans get a +1 to all saves/ability checks to make up for the lack of funky racial abilities).

A lot of what I like is in common with Paladinm's list.

paladinm · Mar 20, 2012

If we were to use BECM's Weapon Mastery system, how would that work with "feats" like weapon finesse, 2-weapon fighting, blind fighting, etc? Would each of those become a different "weapon choice" and get factored into the WM mix?

If we used AD&D multiclassing, how could we give demihumans more opportunities and still make playing a "mere human" viable? I like 3.x multiclassing in general, but there really is no compelling reason to consider playing a dwarf, elf, or whatever. Where is the balance?

Mark CMG · Mar 20, 2012

With the Companion Rules introduction of The War Machine and such, it would certainly make for some cool wargaming "modules" and options.

jshaft37 · Mar 20, 2012

I would actually take a bit of a reverse engineering approach.

I would take 4E Essentials and refine that system so that I could play BD&D.

This would remove the clunky elements of 4E (battlegrid, conditions, triggers, etc) while retaining the class balance, action economy, ease of DMing, and all of the other things that 4E has done the best over all the editions.

paladinm · Mar 20, 2012

I liked Essentials more than "original" 4e, but I still have issues with their approach to "class balance". It really does play too much like WoW. And I'm not crazy about the "forced teamwork" that was built into most of the "powers".

But I do like 4e's monster stat blocks.. and SOME at-wills.. so consider them cherry-picked..lol

NewJeffCT · Mar 20, 2012

I'd want to maintain a balance between the classes and the races. I don't want a high level wizard being the "star" of the party.

I would like fighters to be able to do more than just hit things better & better as they go up in level, even if it is not in the Encounter/Daily format.

I don't want a cleric to be the sole option for the party healer.

I would like magic items to maintain the flavor they had in 1E/2E and not be necessary to fight a monster of X level.

trancejeremy · Mar 20, 2012

Magic needs to be magic. Wizards should be able to do anything, not reduced to simply pulling rabbits out of a hat.

There should be a reason though, why they don't do everything, all the time.

Classes shouldn't be equal, Some should ultimately be capable of doing more things than other classes, but either at the expense of not doing it as well, or only doing it a very limited number of times.

So I would agree with the OP up to 2E.

I can live with those things from 3E. But I would not use 3E's spell lists. Cure Serious Wounds should be a 4th level spell, not 2nd. Get rid of most of the buffing spells as well - in practice, they're just obnoxious.

There shouldn't be any metamagic feats. Wizards don't need 'em.

Hit Dice should stop at 9th level.

If Ascending Armor Class is used there should be a hard cap on how high it can get. 30 (the equivalent of -10, which was exceeded in both BECMI and 2e, but that was a mistake).

So many things in 3E led to inflation of hit points and combat ability (buffs), which in turn meant the monsters had to be scaled up to provide a challenge. It's one thing to give fighters and rogues and such more things they can do, but just inflating the numbers because of temporary buffs is not fun.

Mattachine · Mar 21, 2012

BECMI: Plain language rules. Easy to learn the game, easy to make new PCs.

1e: The spirit of the game back then: dungeon crawl is just as valid a playstyle as anything else. Really great adventure modules.

2e: Specialty priests. Storytelling.

3e: The flavorfull classes of later 3e, like the 3.5 druid or monk, beguiler, warblade, and so forth. Complex skill checks and some other great options from the Unearthed Arcana

4e: Healing without clerics. Essentials classes. Skill system. Monsters and monster design.