D&D 5E Who's given up on D&D Next?

mkill · Apr 1, 2012

I've been trying to figure out what this year's April Fool's Joke on enworld is, but so far I didn't see one. Must be this thread here then.

Piratecat · Apr 1, 2012

TarionzCousin said:
So many of the blogs have focused on what they didn't like.

Oh, there's stuff we don't like, too. That's the nice thing about playtesting: a lot of that will change. I'm sure some of the things we like will change, too. And when they do, we'll evaluate and give balanced feedback on the next iteration of rules. Hooray, iterative playtesting. Paizo did this too and I think it worked incredibly well for them.

One nice thing: our group has something like seven people in it who are, or were, professional game designers. When my feedback is the least cogent of the group's, I figure we're hopefully doing something right.

But back on topic: as irrational as punting a game this early in development may seem to me, I can see lots of other reasons that people may not want to be excited about D&D Next. Maybe they have wallet fatigue; maybe the longer they wait the more their excitement dips; maybe their expectations are too high. Perhaps their group doesn't like change, or they love aspects of their current game that they are afraid will disappear. I can see it.

TarionzCousin said:
It was still encouraging to read how much fun 5E is for your group.

In the trophy hall of Quasqueton, I almost killed someone the other day with an animated undead bearskin rug. Sure, I was just taking a normal undead monster with nifty mechanics and making it look like a bearskin, but the way it played out was great. Best fight of the night.

M.L. Martin · Apr 1, 2012

Piratecat said:
But back on topic: as irrational as punting a game this early in development may seem to me, I can see lots of other reasons that people may not want to be excited about D&D Next. Maybe they have wallet fatigue; maybe the longer they wait the more their excitement dips; maybe their expectations are too high. Perhaps their group doesn't like change, or they love aspects of their current game that they are afraid will disappear. I can see it.

I think part of the issue might be that designers make horrible marketers--we saw some of this with 4E, and I think we're seeing it again, especially since they or some of the playtesters have sometimes used catchphrases or complaints that sound like edition war fodder.

Serendipity · Apr 1, 2012

I've given up on all of the nitpicky speculation but once (if) those playtest documents come out, I expect my interest shall peak once again.

Piratecat · Apr 1, 2012

Matthew L. Martin said:
I think part of the issue might be that designers make horrible marketers--we saw some of this with 4E, and I think we're seeing it again, especially since they or some of the playtesters have sometimes used catchphrases or complaints that sound like edition war fodder.

Remember, playtesters aren't designers. I think the designers are doing a great job so far; they're keeping their mouths closed and gathering playtester data. I say bravo. No game is going to be perfect for everyone, even with the ambitious plan of making 5e as accessible and flexible as possible, and it's crazy to think it would. WotC can't and shouldn't control what folks say (without violating NDA) on their blogs after playtesting. If bloggers try to trigger an edition war, again, in my mind it's a sign that they can't see the big picture.

There are things I absolutely love about 4e, such as martial characters having really meaningful choices in combat. If 5e somehow doesn't support or emulate gameplay I think is great, you'll hear me complaining, but not until I know the rules are done. Until then, it's just a design goal that hasn't been written yet.

Bobbum Man · Apr 1, 2012

Piratecat said:
I tried to answer this about three times, but I'm unable to do so without feeling uncomfortable about it. Sorry, my friend.

I understand your reticence to hint at mechanics while under an NDA, however the question that I have isn't based on any specific mechanics:

I wonder if the enjoyment in your playtest games comes primarily from the rules themselves, or if it is the result of your group's playstyle? That is, do you think you would be having just as much fun with a different system?

Ratinyourwalls · Apr 1, 2012

I pretty much have. I won't throw in the towel until I see the legit public playtesting and whether or not they treat the fan feedback fairly but...Mike Mearls and Monte Cook just are NOT advertising the system I want.

Bobbum Man · Apr 1, 2012

Ratinyourwalls said:
I pretty much have. I won't throw in the towel until I see the legit public playtesting and whether or not they treat the fan feedback fairly but...Mike Mearls and Monte Cook just are NOT advertising the system I want.

If it does Basic D&D with streamlined, more intuitive mechanics then I'm all for it.

If it's another 3.x clone, then I will burn it down. All of it.

Piratecat · Apr 1, 2012

Bobbum Man said:
I wonder if the enjoyment in your playtest games comes primarily from the rules themselves, or if it is the result of your group's playstyle? That is, do you think you would be having just as much fun with a different system?

That is a fine, fine question.

I'm kind of a system whore. In the past year I've played D&D Next, 4e D&D, 3e D&D, Old School Hack, Eclipse Phase, Savage Worlds, Ashen Stars, Night's Black Agents, Fiasco, Time & Temp, Inspectres, Danger Patrol!, Paranoia, Don't Rest Your Head, Marvel Superheroes, Mutants & Masterminds (both 2e and 3e), Leverage, Dread, Call of Cthulhu, Og!, RISUS, and a few games I'm forgetting. That gives me a decent baseline for comparing rules vs players vs scenario.

In addition, my playtest group is large - about 12 people, with available folks swapping in and out depending on who's available on a playtest night. It's not the usual group of players, so there's less of a "yay, the gang's all here!" feel to it.

I believe that my satisfaction (or dissatisfaction) with aspects of the rules is independent of whom I'm playing with. The opinion I'm expressing here is based on system mechanics and play, not roleplaying or friendships. I'll be able to confirm or recant this; I'm running a playtest game at PAX East for strangers, so we'll see if my opinion remains the same.

Having said that, I'm going to politely back out of this thread. It's a topic I want to talk about, which probably means I should give it a wide berth until NDAs are relaxed.

Bobbum Man · Apr 1, 2012

Piratecat said:
Having said that, I'm going to politely back out of this thread. It's a topic I want to talk about, which probably means I should give it a wide berth until NDAs are relaxed.

Thank you. That is all I needed to know. My curiosity is now satiated until I get ahold of the playtest docs myself in due time.