D&D 4th Edition D&D Next (5E) Updates, Pax East, and a Poll




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Poll: Should the cleric and wizard use Vancian Magic as core?

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  1. #1
    The Guvnor
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    D&D Next (5E) Updates, Pax East, and a Poll

    The D&D 5E info page has been updated again with the latest snippets of information, including hints at the approach to backstabs, multiclassing, areas of effect, and more. (Oh, and in case you didn't realise - the playtest packet and collectible cards news on April 1st was an April Fool's joke).


    Remember that PAX East takes place this week, from April 6-8. Like the DDXP convention, it will include public playtests and seminars. Relevant to 5E events include:
    • Playtest Special: D&D Next (Friday 7pm) - Join in a public playtest of the next iteration of the Dungeons & Dragons game at PAX East. Play in an adventure with characters provided, and give us your feedback to help guide the future of the D&D game! Players of any editions of the game are welcome to participate. All participants are required to sign a non-disclosure agreement. Length: 4 hours.
    • The Future of Dungeons & Dragons (Saturday 1:30 pm – 2:30 pm - Wyvern Theatre) - The next iteration of Dungeons & Dragons is on its way! Join D&D Senior Manager Mike Mearls in a Q&A about the next D&D, and how the open playtest is using fan feedback to help shape the future of the game.
    And finally, a new poll! This one's about that old D&D staple, Vancian Magic. The info we have so far appears to indicate that wizards and clerics will use vancian magic as a default, that there will be optional rules modules for other magic systems, and that other spell-using classes may also use different magic system.

    For those who are unclear, vancian magic refers (at least in terms of D&D) the "fire-and-forget" spell system used by all editions of D&D up until 4th Edition, where it was replaced with the daily/encounter/at-will system. A wizard or cleric has a long list of spells available, and chooses each day which to "memorize" (or "prepare", depending on which edition you're using) according to predefined slots. So he can memorize X first-level spells, Y second level-spells, and Z third-level spells, and so on. As he casts them, these spells disappear from his memory, leaving him unable to cast them again unless he's memorized them multiple times or has special feats or abilities which circumvent the basic vancian system.

    All clear now? I hope so!

    So the poll is this: should the cleric and wizard use vancian magic as core, or not?

    If you're viewing this on the news page, the poll is to your right ---->. If you're viewing it as a thread, it's at the top of the thread. If you're viewing it on one of our mobile apps, you'll need to click through to the actual site to vote, as you will if you're viewing it in the newsletter. If you're viewing it some other way I haven't thought of, then I have no friggin' idea!

    Last edited by Morrus; Tuesday, 3rd April, 2012 at 04:11 PM.

  2. #2
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    Poll: None of the Above. I don't care as long as the classes are interesting, flavorful, and reasonably balanced.
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  3. #3
    What do you mean by funky feats and abilities to modify it? Personally I really didn't liked 3e meta magic feats if that what you mean.

    Warder

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    The Guvnor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwarder View Post
    What do you mean by funky feats and abilities to modify it? Personally I really didn't liked 3e meta magic feats if that what you mean.
    Well, for example the wizard feat in 5E/D&D Next which gives the wizard an "at will" attack. Something which goes outside the actual vancian mechanic.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    Well, for example the wizard feat in 5E/D&D Next which gives the wizard an "at will" attack. Something which goes outside the actual vancian mechanic.
    Ok, that I approved off.

    Warder

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    Well, for example the wizard feat in 5E/D&D Next which gives the wizard an "at will" attack. Something which goes outside the actual vancian mechanic.
    That is something that I would be down with. Vancian at the core, so it is true to most past editions but a modular approach for those who want a little something extra. (maybe at-wills, meta magic what have you)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    Well, for example the wizard feat in 5E/D&D Next which gives the wizard an "at will" attack. Something which goes outside the actual vancian mechanic.
    I'm fine with that. Pathfinder does it. It works for wizards that have exhausted all their spells. I'm not fine with the encounters, at-wills and dailies etc.

    Mike
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  8. #8
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    I hate "vancian" casting, but it's been a part of D&D since the beginning so I'm willing to accept that it's a sacred cow that they just won't slaughter. As long as Wizards get some at-will effects so that they don't spend much of the day twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do, I can tolerate vancian casting in the game. There also needs to be other options for magic provided. At the very least, they need to provide something like the "spontaneous casting" sorcerer.

    They also need to make scribing spells in your spellbook free. I've always loathed the idea that wizards have to pay this enormous and totally unrealistic tax that no other type of spellcaster has to pay. 100 gp per page? That's ludicrous. Do people realize how much money that is, especially in a medieval setting? Even if the entire page was plated in gold it shouldn't cost that much! Scribing spells should be as simple as having a book, pen and ink, and whatever spellcraft type roll is approrpiate to see if you can understand the spell's formula.

    I also hope that many of the utility spells are part of a ritual type system, so that casters don't have to choose between competence in battle and being able to do other, interesting things. 4e's ritual casting had some serious flaws, but the idea has alot of potential.
    Last edited by Falling Icicle; Wednesday, 4th April, 2012 at 08:37 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falling Icicle View Post
    They also need to make scribing spells in your spellbook free. I've always loathed the idea that wizards have to pay this enormous and totally unrealistic tax that no other type of spellcaster has to pay. 100 gp per page?
    There are some other idiosyncrasies in that particular mechanic: OotS #306 - Power Word: Annoy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falling Icicle View Post
    As long as Wizards get some at-will effects so that they don't spend much of the day twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do, I can tolerate vancian casting in the game.
    Playing a wizard, I've not felt that I've spent much time twiddling my thumbs. There's always crossbow attacks at lower levels, and it's pretty hard to run out of spells at higher levels. If you did give them an at-will attack, either it's going to be useless, or it's going to cut down the cost of blowing all your spells early, which is part of the fun part and balancing feature of Vancian magic. If as a player of a wizard, you feel you need an at-will effect, get a wand.

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