Bigger is better

So, I was playing around in a high level game and decided to build a Centaur Pychic Warrior. Whenever possible, the Centuar would use his augmented Expansion power to turn size Gargantuan. It was a lot of fun and earned a lot of laughs. I was thinking about getting improved grapple just to say that I can wrestle a Purple Worm to the ground Godzilla-style.

The thing is, I didn't optimize at all, I just had an idea in mind and went with it. I'm rather curious what could have been if I had optimized. I knew immediately there are better ways than Centaur Psychic Warrior if I wanted to get that size sooner, but what possibilities was I neglecting? Are there other classes that might get someone that large? Are there items I should have been using? Are there ways to get even larger?

Help me build this guy! Given 20 levels, how big can I get and how ridiculous can my grapple check go?

Technically, the answer you are looking for is arbitrarily high, as a Cancer Mage with Festering Anger gets an arbitrarily high strength.

For an answer that is likely more applicable to a game you will play, try the Black Blood Cultist Handbook: A Grappler's Manual

Pun Pun.

...Or look at what Dandu said.

HoboGod said:

So, I was playing around in a high level game and decided to build a Centaur Pychic Warrior. Whenever possible, the Centuar would use his augmented Expansion power to turn size Gargantuan. It was a lot of fun and earned a lot of laughs. I was thinking about getting improved grapple just to say that I can wrestle a Purple Worm to the ground Godzilla-style.

The thing is, I didn't optimize at all, I just had an idea in mind and went with it. I'm rather curious what could have been if I had optimized. I knew immediately there are better ways than Centaur Psychic Warrior if I wanted to get that size sooner, but what possibilities was I neglecting? Are there other classes that might get someone that large? Are there items I should have been using? Are there ways to get even larger?

Help me build this guy! Given 20 levels, how big can I get and how ridiculous can my grapple check go?

Click to expand...

The Totemist has Girallon arms which gives competence bonuses to climb and grapple(2+2/essentia). They also have the Kraken Mantle which as an arm bind gives untyped bonuses to grapple as well as an easy, stackable form of constrict. You really don't need to get bigger as you can grapple anyone of any size as gargantuan, but the wu jen has a spell called Giant Size allows you to grow up to colossal as well as giving major bonuses to strength and constitution. A centaur though isn't really a good fit for intelligence based casting. The issue here is making grappling worthwhile, at a base you will be striking once a round with a light weapon and at a penalty. You are also flat-footed making it hard to dispatch people while putting major risk to yourself.
Fortunately, there are ways to help with this. One given is the Black Blood Cultist allowing all available natural attacks to deal damage on a successful grapple check, making a totem rager cultist a fierce damaging build to behold. You want opportunity though, in this case get scorpion's grasp giving you improved grab+, start a grapple freely on a successful attack and no penalty for striking in grapples. In the Savage Species are feats in which any monstrous grappler shouldn't be without. The Multigrab chain allows you to make grapples with single limbs with less and up to no penalties to grappling increasing how many things you can grapple as well as eliminating the flat-footed condition to you. Armor spikes are a very good idea, especially if you run low on feats. As for getting constrict Stone Dragon has stance that deals 2d6+1 1/2 str. as a medium character, you might be able to get it in an item. Then for dispatching enemies there is the choke hold in Oriental Adventures. After maintaining a pin for one round they must roll a fort. save DC(10+1/2 character level+wis.) or fall unconscious(the rogue will love you). Many of these feats make it beneficial to dip into monk than just get tashalatora stacking monk capabilities in psionic classes.

Can someone xp @emoplato for me? Great stuff.

emoplato said:

You really don't need to get bigger as you can grapple anyone of any size as gargantuan

Click to expand...

Becoming as big as possible is my primary goal, being an effective grappler is secondary. Though it's good to know that Wu Jen spell can get someone to size colossal. I wish it weren't a 7th level spell and only a 19th level caster could make someone that large, however.

RUMBLETiGER said:

Pun Pun.

Click to expand...

I don't want that ridiculous, I just want to know if it's possible without being cheesy to get a grapple check that could stand up to a Great Wyrm.

HoboGod said:

I just want to know if it's possible without being cheesy to get a grapple check that could stand up to a Great Wyrm.

Click to expand...

Think about what you have just said...

HoboGod said:

I don't want that ridiculous, I just want to know if it's possible without being cheesy to get a grapple check that could stand up to a Great Wyrm.

Click to expand...

I could take him. Yeah.

I'll look for it when I get home, but I once made a 1/2 Ogre (the RotW +2 LA one, base large) who could grapple the Tarrasque successfully 100% of the time (IE, a grapple mod of +19 higher than Mr T). It Tashed together Monk, Totemist, and PsyWar using Soul Manifester. Despite only being 1/2 BAB, he made up the bonuses elsewhere via Expansion, Grip of Iron, Girallon Arms, and Kraken Mantle. It was scary.

Wyvernhand said:

I'll look for it when I get home, but I once made a 1/2 Ogre (the RotW +2 LA one, base large) who could grapple the Tarrasque successfully 100% of the time (IE, a grapple mod of +19 higher than Mr T). It Tashed together Monk, Totemist, and PsyWar using Soul Manifester. Despite only being 1/2 BAB, he made up the bonuses elsewhere via Expansion, Grip of Iron, Girallon Arms, and Kraken Mantle. It was scary.

Click to expand...

Heard from the bottom of the pile: "I've got it. I've pinned his tongue!"