D&D 5E Monte Cook Leaves WotC - No Longer working on D&D Next [updated]

Mika · Apr 26, 2012

Warunsun said:
This thread is sad so I shall derail it:
Wizards of the Coast to reprint Third Edition???

According to the Barnes and Noble website:
BARNES & NOBLE | Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook: Core Rulebook I, V. 3.5 with Errata by Wizards RPG Team, Wizards of the Coast | Hardcover

Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook: Core Rulebook I, V. 3.5 with Errata
ISBN-13: 9780786962464
Publisher: Wizards of the Coast
Publication date: 9/18/2012
Pages: 320
This item will be available on September 18, 2012.

BARNES & NOBLE | Dungeons & Dragons Dungeons Master's Guide: Core Rulebook II, V. 3.5 with Errata by Wizards RPG Team, Wizards of the Coast | Hardcover

Dungeons & Dragons Dungeons Master's Guide: Core Rulebook II, V. 3.5 with Errata
ISBN-13: 9780786962440
Publisher: Wizards of the Coast
Publication date: 9/18/2012
Pages: 320
This item will be available on September 18, 2012.

Speculate on this! Or is this actually the release date of fifth edition? (September 18, 2012)

Good Gaming!

The descriptions plainly say that these are updates of the 3.5 rules. I think WotC will pepper their schedule with such products during the lull between the announcement of 5E and its actual release. But that is only one month after the 1E books -- shouldn't they be spreading things out a bit more? Maybe we should look for other reprints (D&D Rules Cyclopedia, anyone?).

If 5E really were to be released this September, that is exactly the sort of decision that I would expect a principled game designer to resign over -- but I would be shocked if they did that, since it would mean that the public play tests are coming too late to have any effect on the final product. I am actually hoping that whatever issue Monte Cook left over is small enough that it does not become immediately apparent to us outsiders -- that is what would be a disaster for WotC.

Noumenon · Apr 26, 2012

Nyronus said:
The worst in tone was simply "good riddance."

Oh no, how terrible. He expressed the feeling that it was better that Monte not work on the project and nothing else. The horror :/

I agree that it's no big deal. People are allowed to express their opinions freely at Reddit and it doesn't hurt anything. Although a forum with threaded comments and upvotes doesn't have to worry about negativity derailing a whole thread.

Knightfall · Apr 26, 2012

For me, the questions become: Which of the two remaining designers will lead the design team? Or will they simply be co-designers?

And will someone else be brought in (hired on) to join the design team? Dividing the work of three designers amongst two does not seem like it would be a good idea.

Le Noir Faineant · Apr 26, 2012

The question is, will D&D, apart from nostalgia editions and remakes, still be at all relevant to the hobby next year around this time?

I can't quite think so.

This Mr Mearls, I read his column over at WotC, and he seems to have a completely different view on the hobby than...

Well, just about any gamer I know.

Not that the D&D brand dying would be too much of an issue, at this point.
There's enough stuff out there even to satisfy the most ardent collectors, and between the OSR, Pathfinder, ebay, and other games in the same spirit, there's stuff to game for centuries.

But 5e, uuuh, wasn't this supposed to be the "charm offensive" towards the alienated fanbase?

Worked REALLY WELL so far.

TirionAnthion · Apr 26, 2012

I was saddened by the news of Monte's departure. I have enjoyed his work over the years and many books on my shelf feature his name on the cover. Any time a project loses someone who is so talented, it is a significant loss. I am confident that Monte will go on to many future successes and I wish him the best.

That said, Rob Schwalb and Bruce Cordell are also talented individuals who I believe are more than capable of producing a quality game. After getting to play a game with Rob as a DM, I feel confident that the game is in good hands, even if he did kill my character.

I have played every edition of D&D and I feel that each one has brought something new and exciting to the table. I am looking forward to what D&D next has in store. In the last week I have run D&D 4e Encounters, AD&D 1e Hidden Shrine of Tamaochan, played in a BECMI game and I am running 2e Dragon Mountain on Saturday. I am kind of like the Captain Planet of D&D editions (YOUR EDITIONS COMBINED...)

I think that it is important to keep things in perspective and most importantly, roll some dice and have fun playing make believe!

Lanefan · Apr 26, 2012

Mika said:
The descriptions plainly say that these are updates of the 3.5 rules. I think WotC will pepper their schedule with such products during the lull between the announcement of 5E and its actual release. But that is only one month after the 1E books -- shouldn't they be spreading things out a bit more?

Did the 1e books get delayed? I thought they came out this week...

As for Mr. Cook's departure and the bit about differences with WotC, I wonder if Hasbro set some profit/sales goals that are unachievable unless 5e is released in a manner Mr. Cook doesn't agree with - possibly like the core of 4e - a bit at a time in order to keep the cashflow going.

Lan-"purely speculation"-efan

Daven · Apr 26, 2012

I am not surprised so much as Mike Mearls says.
When he returned I thought that he would create problems on opinion divergence level.
He acts too much like a rock star. He better works alone.

Nyronus · Apr 26, 2012

Ainamacar said:
Perhaps my reading is uncharitable, but I believe "good riddance" expressed contempt. Few things in game design merit such a response, and fewer still will be guided to anything constructive by its naked expression.

You can't say for certain the poster was motivated by contempt. Tone is kind of lost in text. The phrase "good riddance" could be said with an agry spit at the ground, or with an apathetic eye roll or a shrug. Even assuming though it was said with contempt: Contempt of what? As I mentioned, I felt some of the things Monte was saying about game design were dishonest, and I honestly find that kind of contemptible, in the context of being a professional in a field. I find his (thankfully discarded) concept of Ivory Tower Game Design contemptible in the context of game design theory, as not only is it just plain noob-punishing, but it also completely missed the point and context of why it was in is Magic the Gathering (to facilitate different levels and types of play). Just because I've found some of his conduct unprofessional, and the ideas he used to hold as dumber than rocks doesn't mean I think he's a terrible human being. I honestly wouldn't know.

I also honestly wouldn't know why the poster in question felt strongly enough to say "good riddance," if he really felt all that strongly at all. I find turning on him when he has given no other indication of his feelings beyond not liking Monte working on the project a lot (maybe), and spitting openly in his face and calling him a tool, on the grounds that he made an uncalled for personal attack, to be terribly myopic.

Knightfall · Apr 26, 2012

Lanefan said:
Did the 1e books get delayed? I thought they came out this week...

Pushed back... June or July, I think.

EDIT: July

Shemeska · Apr 26, 2012

Nyronus said:
You can't say for certain the poster was motivated by contempt. Tone is kind of lost in text. The phrase "good riddance" could be said with an agry spit at the ground, or with an apathetic eye roll or a shrug. Even assuming though it was said with contempt: Contempt of what? As I mentioned, I felt some of the things Monte was saying about game design were dishonest, and I honestly find that kind of contemptible, in the context of being a professional in a field. I find his (thankfully discarded) concept of Ivory Tower Game Design contemptible in the context of game design theory, as not only is it just plain noob-punishing, but it also completely missed the point and context of why it was in is Magic the Gathering (to facilitate different levels and types of play). Just because I've found some of his conduct unprofessional, and the ideas he used to hold as dumber than rocks doesn't mean I think he's a terrible human being. I honestly wouldn't know.

It was an ugly attack and it really shouldn't be defended.

It's largely kept in check here, but over on RPG.net to an extent and certainly on /tg/ there's been a seriously callous and disgusting display today over Monte leaving, pretty much the 4venger crowd seeing it as some sort of vindication of 4e design elements in 5e moving forward.