How Many Classes Do We Really Need?

Neonchameleon · Apr 28, 2012

steeldragons said:
(bolding, mine)

OK! I know this might not be the thread for it...but I've thought this for so long, I have to say it SOMEwhere...

VAMPIRE IS NOT A CLASS!!!!

Vampirism is a DISEASE! An affliction! A curse! ANYONE can be...become...be turned into...a vampire!

It's not something you do (a class) it's something you are or become in the course of play (preferably avoid becoming at all costs!)

If you see your class as how you approach the world (and I do) then class is a good way of approaching the classical vampire assuming someone wants to play one. And the vampire-as-PC actually predates the cleric-as-PC (with the first cleric PC being a specialised vampire hunter to deal with the troublesome vampire PC - and that's why they get to turn undead).

If you get turned into a vampire and otherwise approach the world using your old abilities, this should be feats or a template or a race. If you are an old vampire who approaches the world by casting spells then vampire is a race.

If what you want is someone out of the Hammer House of Horror who uses strength and speed, with a hypnotic gaze, and who turns into a bat, a wolf, or mist, and this is your primary non-basic means of interaction then this should be a class. As you level up what you concentrate on improving is your vampiric abilities. And that makes it a class.

And trust me, the Hammer House of Horror Vampire is an absolute blast to play for a little while. It does not, however, fit every campaign (and is routinely on my ban list when planning campaigns in 4e).

steeldragons · Apr 28, 2012

Neonchameleon said:
-snip-

And the vampire-as-PC actually predates the cleric-as-PC (with the first cleric PC being a specialised vampire hunter to deal with the troublesome vampire PC - and that's why they get to turn undead).

If that is historically accurate, that is unfortunate.

That well may be, but I have a tendency to think it's probably more to do with the whole Exorcist thing and "get thee behind me satan!" Seems a lot more archetypal than "We need a class to thwart this other class...that gods know why we created it in the first place."

Neonchameleon said:
If you get turned into a vampire and otherwise approach the world using your old abilities, this should be feats or a template or a race. If you are an old vampire who approaches the world by casting spells then vampire is a race.

If what you want is someone out of the Hammer House of Horror who uses strength and speed, with a hypnotic gaze, and who turns into a bat, a wolf, or mist, and this is your primary non-basic means of interaction then this should be a class. As you level up what you concentrate on improving is your vampiric abilities. And that makes it a class.

And trust me, the Hammer House of Horror Vampire is an absolute blast to play for a little while. It does not, however, fit every campaign (and is routinely on my ban list when planning campaigns in 4e).

I...not surprisingly...completely disagree with this.

I do not know what the "Hammer House of Horror Vampire" is...but it doesn't sound like D&D. Hence, like school in the summuh time...noooo class.

Tallifer · Apr 28, 2012

I think we only need the most basic and iconic of classes:

Ardent
Artificer
Assassin
Avenger
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Friar
Invoker
Monk
Necromancer
Paladin
Priest
Psion
Ranger
Rogue
Runepriest
Seeker
Shaman
Sorcerer
Swordmage
Warden
Warlock
Warlord
Witch
Wizard

That should be enough classes upon which to build a good foundation. After that we can have more exotic classes:

Ninja
Gunslinger
Magus
Oracle
Cavalier
Summoner
Fightbrain
Anti-paladin
Bender
Binder
Nightshade
Soulblade
Hexblade
Samurai
Sleuth
Vampire
Werewolf
Lich
Rocketeer
Spelljammer
Martial Controller

Neonchameleon · Apr 28, 2012

steeldragons said:
If that is historically accurate, that is unfortunate.

That well may be, but I have a tendency to think it's probably more to do with the whole Exorcist thing and "get thee behind me satan!" Seems a lot more archetypal than "We need a class to thwart this other class...that gods know why we created it in the first place."

Source. And yes, Old Geezer/Mike Mornard was there.

I...not surprisingly...completely disagree with this.

I do not know what the "Hammer House of Horror Vampire" is...but it doesn't sound like D&D. Hence, like school in the summuh time...noooo class.

Normally Christopher Lee darkly overacting - which was exactly the inspiration for Sir Fang. Bad fake Transylvanian accents welcome.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV39nnA8mGc&feature=related"]Christopher Lee darkly overacting[/ame]

To me, the spirit of D&D is best summed up by Old Geezer in the linked post (and repeated many times when asked why something happened). "WE MADE UP SOME THAT WE THOUGHT WOULD BE FUN."

The Shadow · Apr 28, 2012

Minigiant said:
Can the Fighter (Wilderness Hunter) charm, calm, and rear animals?

The last two: Handle Animal skill from background. The first one, if a full-blown charm, would require dipping one level or so into druid.

Or heal himself and remove poison?

Heal skill from background, possibly including an Herbalism ability.

Or move silently and hide well?

Stealth skill. I think you see where I'm going with this.

Or exude harsh temperature and disastrous weather?

Survival skill. Depending on how broad skills are, Handle Animal might even be folded into this. Otherwise, that's four.

Or detect, avoid, or (if push comes to shove) confront roaming magical beasts, wonderful fey, and savage tribal humanoids?

Sounds like a Favored Enemy feat that could easily be part of a Hunter theme.

mkill · Apr 28, 2012

At the table, in your campaign, D&D only ever consists of 5 classes... the classes your players chose. (+ a few for multiclass but let's keep it simple, shall we?)

Now, whether they chose 5 out of 5, or 5 out of 555, doesn't matter. At all. The classes that aren't currently played in your campaign are irrelevant.

So the only question that you need to ask is: Would someone play X? If yes, make it a class.

Saracenus · Apr 28, 2012

The list of classes that are going to be in the PH is already set, if it was in a PH in any edition, it will be in 5e with the edition of Psion and Priest.

If you check the class page of the 5e spoilers here on ENWorld WotC has talked about the following classes: fighter, cleric, wizard, warlock, bard, paladin, psion, barbarian, monk, druid, warlord.

So we are looking at:

Assassin
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Monk
Paladin
Priest
Psion
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer
Warlock
Warlord
Wizard

I am not sure why we are wrangling about what should or should not be included. The design goal is inclusion, not exclusion. If my use of classes outside 1e is going to stop you from playing 5e, well that is on you.

My two coppers,

hafrogman · Apr 28, 2012

Saracenus said:
The list of classes that are going to be in the PH is already set, if it was in a PH in any edition, it will be in 5e with the edition of Psion and Priest.

I think the point is that

Class Design Seminar said:
To start with we kind of shot at the moon, and said everything that's been in a Player's Handbook 1, we want to potentially have in our new player's book.

Includes phrases like "to start with" and "potentially" which hardly indicate something being set in stone. I've been guilty of this myself. They're still talking about design goals and intentions at this point. Nothing is for certain, especially not the class list.

Steely_Dan · Apr 28, 2012

Saracenus said:
So we are looking at:

Assassin
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Monk
Paladin
Priest
Psion
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer
Warlock
Warlord
Wizard

And Illusionist.

About the Psion, I thought they said it is currently crying in the corner (I would love for it to be in the PHB)?

Some may end up as themes (I'm looking at you Barbarian) or what-have-you.

The Shadow · Apr 28, 2012

Steely_Dan said:
Some may end up as themes (I'm looking at you Barbarian) or what-have-you.

Exactly. They didn't say that every class from a PH1 would be in *as a class*. They said they would be doable.

How Many Classes Do We Really Need?

Neonchameleon

Legend

steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons

Tallifer

Hero

Neonchameleon

Legend

The Shadow

Hero

mkill

Adventurer

Saracenus

Always In School Gamer

hafrogman

Adventurer

Steely_Dan

First Post

The Shadow

Hero

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