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Thread: Of Fighters and Sammiches
Thursday, 11th October, 2012, 02:20 PM #41
A 1e title so awesome it's not in the book (Lvl 21)
But which sandwich is most efficient at killing wererats?Ryan "RangerWickett" Nock
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Thursday, 11th October, 2012, 02:43 PM #42
Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)
Thursday, 11th October, 2012, 03:14 PM #43
Spellbinder (Lvl 16)
Like I said, the metaphor starts to wear a bit thin after a while.
Really, the whole point of my original post can be summed up like this: my benchmark test for a new deli is a simple turkey & swiss. If they can't get that one right, then there is usually no point in going back for any of the others. Likewise, for an RPG game, my benchmark test for it is the simple Fighter class. If they can't get that one right, then there is usually no point in going back for any of the others.
It's fun to discuss the specifics of that comparison, but what I was trying to say was this: I don't like the way the Fighter class feels in 5E so far. It feels too much like the 3E and 4E fighters, and not enough like the BECM and 2E ones that I prefer. So thhis makes it very hard for me to appreciate the system as a whole, because not only is the fighter class one of the most simple and straightforward, it is also one of the most pervasive. Nearly everything in the game "tastes" like a Fighter in some way or another.
But this is not a final version, and I am still playtesting and providing input/feedback to the Wizards, so maybe with a little more polish (and a lot less mayo), it will look and play closer to what I want in a Fighter. Fingers crossed, anyway.
Thursday, 11th October, 2012, 03:46 PM #44
I think I got lost between the analogy and the play test, but if your main complaint was expertise dice "powers", why not just ignore all the options and just roll them as damage dice...
Re backgrounds and specialities stick to something simple like a knight and guardian.
Result, a fighter that hits, and hits hard.... And can help protect the wizard as he always should do
Thursday, 11th October, 2012, 04:18 PM #45
Thaumaturgist (Lvl 9)
The funny thing about being Norwegian is that we make bread that's completely different than basically the rest of the world. Eating bread outside of Norway is a disappointing affair with bread totally lacking in the fibre department.
Anyway, I do like the reasoning here, but I am tired of salami and cheese sandwiches and want something a bit more refined.
Thursday, 11th October, 2012, 05:33 PM #46
Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)
I think you're over-thinking it. As others have said, Combat Superiority is optional, and can always default to Deadly Strike. Though I get the feeling this is somehow not sufficient...
May I ask why it's not sufficient? There exists an option to make the Fighter more or less complicated as needed. It's like the deli has a delicious condiment bar, and you can mix and match what you want. Want only mayo? We've got a delicious one right here for you! Your buddy wants mustard on his Turkey sandwich? He's free to have as much as he wants!
... Though I do pose that question sincerely. I don't know much about the editions of Fighters you listed. How would you have structured the class within the 5e framework? How would you have done so in such a way that doesn't restrict people to "only mayo" when they want something fancier on their turkey sandwiches?
... Also, thanks for making me second-guess my choice of mustard instead of mayo when I was packing my lunch this morning.
Friday, 12th October, 2012, 10:06 AM #47
Orcus on an Off-Day (Lvl 22)
By comparison, the 2e fighter was little more than a buzzsaw, and the 1e fighter a mere axe. They were both good at dishing out damage and chopping down monsters that simply stood there to take it - and damn little else, based on their actual mechanics.
Friday, 12th October, 2012, 11:08 AM #48
Magsman (Lvl 14)
BECMI Fighters got the above, and weapon mastery, and a "prestige class" at 12th level. Real mincing machines.
Friday, 12th October, 2012, 12:19 PM #49
Grandfather of Assassins (Lvl 19)
Or because of the combat rules used?
Or because of the character creation rules used?
Because the 5e Fighter is more or less like the 3e Fighter plus CS/ED (a class-specific feature), and the 3e Fighter is more or less like previous editions Fighters plus skills and feats (not class-specific features but parts of the general character creation rules and game system).
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Friday, 12th October, 2012, 03:09 PM #50
Hydra (Lvl 25)
What a lot of the earlier fighters had, in addition to damage-dealing awesome, was general "toughness" and "resilience." They had big HD, they had awesome saves, they used all the magic arms and armor, they got the best armor -- they had good "passive" abilities that hinged off of other game mechanics to make an effective fighter.
Not that they were always as good at this as they should be, not that other classes didn't sometimes take 90-95% of what a fighter was good at and then made it better, just that there was some invisibility in how its abilities sometimes operated. Things like "Paladins must give up their wealth!" were more than just fluff, they were rules to help keep the fighter viable, since fighters didn't have to do that.
At any rate, I'm curious how the 5e fighter fails for you, CNN. What -- specifically -- leaves that bad taste in your mouth?
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