Write this game for adults

Blackwarder · Apr 30, 2012

I just realized somthing that been nagging at me for a long time, I'd like to have the core rule books written for adults.

Flipping through the pages of 3e and 4e PHB I get the filling that the audience they are written for are teenagers and not grown up, I can't put my finger on it but the entire book feels PG13 and overly PC.

When I read through the 2e PHB it's feels like its one guy telling another about the game without any pussyfooting around, starting from the art (partially clothed females FTW EDIT: that was a bad jest that went out of hand, I apologize to every one who zeroed on it like a hit seeking missile) and down through how everything is told to the player, the book expect you to not be a dick and be a grown up around the table.

I would like to know what you guys think about this, I would much prefer having a book written by adults for adults and then having a kiddie friendly version, preferably in starter set boxes that I could buy for my small cousins.

What is your take?

Warder

jshaft37 · Apr 30, 2012

I agree that it should be written in a mature manner. That can be achieved by the tone and mood of the writing.

I disagree that mature means having sexualized female heroine art concepts. If anything, that's immature.

herrozerro · Apr 30, 2012

personally, now as a parent and a gamer. i understand that there are some games that have adult themes and its just a part of the game. but I dont feel that D&D should be one of those games.

Incenjucar · Apr 30, 2012

"Partly clothed females FTW" is teenager material, not adult material.

Adult material would be if the PHB had a chapter on how to balance your household budget, raising your tween daughter who is being leered at by the half-elves at school and having self-esteem issues from being called round-ears, and dragon-slaying without losing a healthy work/life balance.

dkyle · Apr 30, 2012

Blackwarder said:
When I read through the 2e PHB it's feels like its one guy telling another about the game without any pussyfooting around, starting from the art (partially clothed females FTW) and down through how everything is told to the player, the book expect you to not be a dick and be a grown up around the table.

Funny. I tend to think of "partially clothed female" pictures as geared squarely towards teenagers. "Adult" material doesn't make something "grown up".

That's not to say that I don't appreciate them, but I'm fully aware that they're tickling a part of my brain that hasn't changed much since I was a teenager.

Also, "don't be a dick" is pretty much right in the 4E DMG, so I'm not sure why that's a problem with 4E...

Kynn · Apr 30, 2012

Blackwarder said:
When I read through the 2e PHB it's feels like its one guy telling another about the game without any pussyfooting around, starting from the art (partially clothed females FTW) and down through how everything is told to the player, the book expect you to not be a dick and be a grown up around the table.

"Partially clothed females FTW" screams "immature teenager" more than anything in 3.x or 4e's rulebooks that I've read.

Blackwarder · Apr 30, 2012

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating to have Jenna Jameson on the cover of the PHB (mind you, I'm not terribly against this

), I only gave it as an example of the mood in the book, when your target audience is adults than having some art showing some skin (male or female, why does having a nearly naked Connan never bother anyone?) wouldn't cause anyone to bat an eyelash.

The way I see it, we are the guys with the money, and we are the crazy hobbiest who will buy all those books when they'll come out so aim them for us, make some starter sets for the younger generation so we could show them the game while they are young, easily impressionable and don't automatically rule out doing anything with their old man but aim the main books for adults.

Morrus · Apr 30, 2012

Blackwarder said:
I just realized somthing that been nagging at me for a long time, I'd like to have the core rule books written for adults.

Flipping through the pages of 3e and 4e PHB I get the filling that the audience they are written for are teenagers and not grown up, I can't put my finger on it but the entire book feels PG13 and overly PC.

When I read through the 2e PHB it's feels like its one guy telling another about the game without any pussyfooting around, starting from the art (partially clothed females FTW) and down through how everything is told to the player, the book expect you to not be a dick and be a grown up around the table.

I would like to know what you guys think about this, I would much prefer having a book written by adults for adults and then having a kiddie friendly version, preferably in starter set boxes that I could buy for my small cousins.

What is your take?

Warder

You're talking about two things.

I agree that I prefer a tone more oriented towards the competent reader (though you need to remember that the game isn't just for adults, and kids need to find it accessible, too).

I absolutely do not agree that "maturity" means "partially clothed females". That screams "barely pubescent teenaged fantasy wet dreams" to me. If you really have to look at pictures of women in skimpy clothes, there are plenty of other publications available to you. I do not think that objectifism of women is either mature or appropriate.

So yes, I'd like it to be aimed at mature readers. Which means it wouldn't objectify women. Your'e welcome to your own barely-pubescent-fantasy-wet-dreams, but as an adult I'd rather you kept them to yourself and didn't put them in my game books.

FinalSonicX · Apr 30, 2012

I've never had the feeling that the 3.5 or 4e books were written for teens rather than adults. If anything, they feel fairly sterile, like technical manuals more than the slightly more conversational nature of previous edition's handbooks. Do you think that's what you're sensing when you read the books? If so, I think a bit more of a focus on a conversational tone would be nice, as long as it's all still clear and readable like the current "technical manual style".

As for writing for adults, I think that the game is kind of like the "gatekeeper" to the RPG industry. It needs to be kid friendly, but that doesn't mean that it needs to be any less palatable for adults. So I don't think your preference for partially dressed women in the art is appropriate. It also does not say to me "this game is mature".

Besides, the tone of the game will change depending on the DM and group anyways. Best to try to make everyone feel like they're "at home" reading the manuals.

GX.Sigma · Apr 30, 2012

It should be accessible to (literally) everyone. That necessarily means it needs to be family friendly. Note that "family friendly" does not mean "immature." A movie like Up, for example, is very mature (with realistically portrayed themes such as aging, death, grief, etc.), yet fun for all the family.

Perhaps a more pertinent example would be The Dark Knight. It features complex and psychological plot lines, and the subject matter is dealt with in a mature way, but kids can go see it and just enjoy a movie about superheroes beating people up.