The Dark Tapestry and how it relates to Living Pathfinder

IronWolf · May 5, 2012

DalkonCledwin said:
If we are banning the Dark Tapestry for the simple reason that it's deities utilize portfolio's that encompass " Death, pain, destruction, death, cruelty, greed, murder, death..." and yet more death... then would it not be logical by extention to also ban all Evocation specialized Wizards who are of the Chaotic Neutral Alignment as well seeing as how their entire specialty basically revolves around causing destruction on a massive scale?

Yes. (though keep in mind several of us are saying no to Dark Tapestry as player material. I think the same of us would support better support from the GM side for the Dark Tapestry).

I understand that you are frustrated that several of us think a character based on the Dark Tapestry concept plays on that evil line too closely, but I think you are starting to make some significant jumps in logic. The very essence of the portfolios you mention are death, pain, destruction, cruelty, murder, death, etc. Those are all evil tending and little good can come of it.

Evocation spells? They are a tool that can be used for good or evil. It simply isn't even in the same ballpark in my opinion.

DalkonCledwin said:
In otherwords the way I am reading you guys, is that you only want player characters who have a moral alignment that places them squarely in the good category, or at the very least whose deities are squarely placed in the good category.

I would not say that. I would say that we are having a hard time buying that one who draws their power from the dark tapestry is falling in the middle of the spectrum and strikes us as falling too far into the evil side of things. Again, I think you might be making leaps of logic based off this one specific example of what some of the judges are taking exception to.

Really - the dark tapestry looks pretty interesting to me. I wouldn't mind seeing someone develop some tie-ins to LPF and provide a ripe playground for GMs to use in their adventures. I just don't see a player character as fitting for dabbling in this area.

Maidhc O Casain · May 5, 2012

I think it's entirely possible to play an Oracle connected to the Dark Tapestry without lapsing into evil, if one emphasizes the insanity aspect. Walking Dad is doing a good job of it, IMO, in a non-LPF game (ahayford's Shackled City).

I'm not ready (yet) to say I think it would be right for LPF to allow Dark Tapestry Clerics/Oracles/etc. as PCs, but I'm willing to consider it at least.

GlassEye · May 5, 2012

I think there is great roleplaying potential in a good character 'cursed' with these sorts of dark powers.

The problem I have is with pushing a character's alignment to the closest to evil possible, then giving them dark powers. I'm not saying this is happening here but it feels to me like playing an evil character without the evil label.

Edit: deleted inappropriate comment. My apologies to all.

jkason · May 8, 2012

Very late to the party, but I think what I'd say has been covered by some of hte most recent posts. Mostly: the fact that oracles are cursed, not necessarily rewarded, by deitites (in fact, the Pathfinder iconic oracle came from an atheist home), so a person might be fighting to control 'evil' abilities in a bid to avoid being overtaken from them. I agree, though, that it's a hard line to walk.

Then again, I'm currently playing in a party that just raided a compound and seems to be in the process of slaughtering a man for stealing a couple of gems, so I *might* not have the best perspective on how much moral ambiguity we should allow.

As to GM's using Dark Tapestry ... Um... nobody pay any attention the Kostry Kopec adventure over there. Nothing to see behind that curtain... :uhoh:

Shayuri · May 8, 2012

Wow, I almost overlooked this.

This is interesting to me, because it kind of connects to my character concept. Let me spill some thoughts on the napkin of your minds and see if it soaks in.

My character is Maia...an Oracle of the Heavens whom I have deemed is a fragment (avatar kind of) of a star that has fallen/been sent to the world. Out of curiosity and a desire to take part in all the goings-on.

In my brain, but having spoken to no one about it cuz I wasn't sure how it all worked, the stars have a multi-tiered purpose for existing in this cosmology. They were, at the dawn of creation, used to store divine power...a kind of 'cosmic fire' that is the source of their light and power to this day. Once the universe was built from primordial chaos, the stars were arranged to form a kind of sphere around it. The light of creation, the divine fire, then acts as a barrier to those Things that are outside, the chaos-forms that dwell in the eternal dark. The stars current role therefore is to be the bulwark that keeps the denizens of the Dark Tapestry at bay. It doesn't always work...hence the aboleths and illithid and nasties that managed to get through...but its success rate is pretty good given the length of time we're discussing.

This is also why Maia coming to the world is something she's not eager for the gods to find out about, since the portion of the Fire that was sent with her has now weakened the star...making that little corner of the cosmos less 'firm' so to speak. I'm sure the star Maia felt it was an acceptable risk, but who can say if the gods will agree?

THUS

While none of this is canon, and I'm totally open to redoing as much of it as needed, left to my own devices I can see how an Oracle of the Dark Tapestry could be a kind of antithesis to Maia...perhaps something snuck in that 'gap' in the protection afforded by the stars, and 'infected' someone? Maybe that's what it means when the cultists mutter 'when the stars are right.'

...

Not to give anyone evil ideas, of course.

That would be evil.