13th Age Jonathan Tweet talks "13th Age" - Page 6




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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walker N. Waistz View Post
    Actually, there is a lot of 4E in there. According to that thread Matrix Sorcica linked to, 13th Age''s playtest had healing surges, melee basic attacks, at-will/encounter/daily powers, standardized attack / defense scaling, level tiers, and dragonborn.

    So I am pretty sure "let's fix D&D `cuz 4E sucks" is not the motivation here.
    There are definitely some things that feel '4e-ish'. OTOH my observation is that there is really not a trace mechanically of 4e in the game. Recoveries (HS-like mechanic) works quite differently, you get a number of them, much like HS per adventure. You can use one automatically as an action. Beyond that you have to make checks to access more during that encounter. Recoveries use a die plus CON bonus for what you recover, so they decline in value quickly as you level up (though there may well be some ways to scale them). There is 'Recovery based healing'. I think the overall feel of that mechanic (and damage/healing in general) is probably the most 4e-like aspect of the system.

    There are 'MBAs', but the system doesn't really have 'attack powers', at least for weapons. Any weapon attack you make is generally based on your basic attack with sauce added, though maybe the monk is structured a bit differently. Basic Attack is also not standardized, but is a feature of each class. The cleric for instance attacks with WIS + Level vs AC; W+STR damage on a hit, level damage on a miss. Naturally every class HAS such an attack, but they are all slightly different. Some classes like wizards won't generally rely on them.

    There really is no AEDU type system in the sense that 4e has. Every class has its own specific mechanics, so there's nothing to base such a system on. Some character abilities ARE either at-will, encounter, or daily (I guess, I didn't really see a daily, but I'm pretty sure many/most spells can only be cast once). The result is much more like AD&D in that sense than anything you would compare to 4e.

    To-hit does scale by level, but this is true of all editions of D&D. There are tiers, to an extent, but they are more a story guideline from what I could see. There are some 'standards' to the tiers in that stuff you get at level 4 and some advancements at the 'tier break' are more powerful. It is hard to actually compare 13a here to other D&D-likes, the level system is quite different from any edition of D&D.

    Yes, there are dragonborn, which is cool. That was IMHO the biggest clear nod to 4e in the game though.

    In some ways 13a does build on 4e concepts. Characters are pretty tough right off from level 1, DEFINITELY not 'average joes looking to make good'. Probably more so than in 4e. Recoveries are similar to HS. There are defenses instead of saves, though they work a little differently. I think 4e inspired some of 13a, but I think mechanically most of it owes more to late 2nd edition than 4e. MCing is pretty much AD&D style, and the fighter with his maneuvers is VERY reminiscent of the 2e options + tactics book fighter. Some classes are a lot like a hybrid of 2e and 3e concepts, like the bard (which has no less than 4 different power systems in one class!).

    Overall it feels a bit like playing mid to high level AD&D characters, but without all the magic at level 1. Leveling is probably the most unique thing. With only 10 levels each one is a BIG jump in power. OTOH with no XP and using the incremental gain rule (you get part of your level benefits over the course of the previous level) I suspect it feels a good bit different. The DM could stretch a game out to be like a long epic scale campaign ala 30 levels of 4e or compress the whole thing down to 3 months of play with a new level almost every week.

 

  • #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by thzero View Post
    Not going to lie, this sounds horrific to me. Perhaps I'm just a gronard that has been playing AD&D+ ON BATTLEMAPS since the early 80s, but this thing sorta irks me right off. "Players spend more time imagining the battles in their heads and less time counting squares." That is just closed minded in its own way. If they are so interested in just allowing me and my gaming group to have fun, why are they forcing us to play in their style? Because of it, I'll just stick to 3e/Pathfinder/M&M/GURPs/etc.

    Yes, I have played in plenty of games without maps and in general the combat goes to hell in a hand basket quit quickly, and without fail. Even a simple map with simple markers just helps things quite nicely. Why put some much time and effort into interesting combat, but don't bother to account for spatial relations between the combatants and their environment? That is just as important as some fancy move with a sword or a spell.

    Tweet said 13A doesn't require a grid. He didn't forbid you from using one, if you wish. One of the key features he kept mentioning was that 13A is designed to be customizable to your specific group's playstyle. So if you like a grid, you're welcome to use one.

    And, remember the pedigree of Tweet and Heinsoo. They made 3rd and 4th, and D&D Miniatures (among many other games). It would be very... unusual for them to create a game that didn't "account for spatial relations between combatants."
    Last edited by Zaruthustran; Friday, 25th May, 2012 at 05:05 AM.
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  • #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaruthustran View Post
    Tweet said 13A doesn't require a grid. He didn't forbid you from using one, if you wish. One of the key features he kept mentioning was that 13A is designed to be customizable to your specific group's playstyle. So if you like a grid, you're welcome to use one.

    And, remember the pedigree of Tweet and Heinsoo. They made 3rd and 4th, and D&D Miniatures (among many other games). It would be very... unusual for them to create a game that didn't "account for spatial relations between combatants."
    Yeah. I think 13a combat seemed a bit quick (in rounds) to support deep tactics. I don't remember there being mention of things like 'combat advantage' or even a rule for surprise (maybe there is one, I only skimmed the combat rules since I wasn't the DM). Tactically I think the game is oriented around emphasizing cinematic action type sequences vs tactical play. We DID drop some minis on our map and move them around for reference, which worked fine, though probably for a lot of fights it isn't really doing a ton for you. If the DM wants to push tactics a bit more then I'd say granting a bonus for say flanking an enemy and various things would work fine and is in keeping with the general concept of the game. I agree with the sentiment that for more elaborate combats using minis is a help. OTOH for your average "party beats on a small number of orcs" kind of combat they're probably redundant (and 4e could really have benefited from a way to go with that).

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    Hmm, well all speculation aside, I'm going to give it a try. I'm very intrigued by the Icon/Faction having impacts on the over-riding story, character background, etc. I should disclose that I've always done pretty detailed backgrounds for most of my Fantasy RP characters and will continue to do so. In a system that actively encourages you to do so... Um, yeah, sign me up. So far, I like what I'm hearing/seeing about this new game more-so than I've seen on 5E D&D... no disrespect implied or intended. It has it's merits too (I've run a play-test of it).
    Last edited by Aehrlon; Sunday, 3rd June, 2012 at 10:23 AM.
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  • #55
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    Finally, the NDA has been lifted, and all us playtesters can talk about 13th Age!

    I'm doing so, here.

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