Death's Domain [HM's 4e game] Recruiting - OOC

hafrogman · May 26, 2012

Kzach said:
Plus the addition of many feats and powers that fix holes in the PHB 1's classes, not to mention the math.

I'm talking specifically errata, not general system changes. That is to say, all the old PHB 1 feats and MM 1 monsters remain unchanged in the compendium and CB even if later books added material to shore up the system's shortcomings.

drothgery · May 26, 2012

hafrogman said:
I'm talking specifically errata, not general system changes. That is to say, all the old PHB 1 feats and MM 1 monsters remain unchanged in the compendium and CB even if later books added material to shore up the system's shortcomings.

... and a lot of changes in powers, which were mostly minor rules clarifications but some fix a few more serious problems (and Magic Missile was changed purely for flavor reasons).

HolyMan · May 26, 2012

So all this makes it harder to start a 4e game like I want here on the boards. If it were RL then I could just say we use the books I have and can houserule any powers that seem not to fit in with the RAW.

But on line with some people having access to the Compendium and possible FAQs and other material it would be hard for me to keep up unless I too went through and slogged through years of material and errata?

Well this bites. Looks like my 4e might not take off after all. And I really like these adventures. :-S

HM

drothgery · May 26, 2012

HolyMan said:
So all this makes it harder to start a 4e game like I want here on the boards. If it were RL then I could just say we use the books I have and can houserule any powers that seem not to fit in with the RAW.

But on line with some people having access to the Compendium and possible FAQs and other material it would be hard for me to keep up unless I too went through and slogged through years of material and errata?

Well, consider that most of the errata for the PHB is changes to powers (and if they're powers for classes no one is playing, or for higher-level powers, you don't need to worry about it). There are six pages of errata for the DMG, and three of them are about mounted combat, flying, and skill challenges (of which only the last is likely to be relevant). Same goes for the four pages of Monster Manual errata only more so; most of it is for monsters a low-level party has no business running into.

Kzach · May 26, 2012

HolyMan said:
Well this bites. Looks like my 4e might not take off after all. And I really like these adventures.

Or you could just not be cheap and spend $9 to get DDI access like everyone else does.

rangerjohn · May 26, 2012

No! Everyone does not. This, just gives credence to people who say its all about the money. Your saying they put out a game that wasn't playable? Your further stating that the cure for this to stop them from doing this again, is to give them more money? Looks like we need to stick with PF, HM.

drothgery · May 26, 2012

rangerjohn said:
No! Everyone does not. This, just gives credence to people who say its all about the money. Your saying they put out a game that wasn't playable? Your further stating that the cure for this to stop them from doing this again, is to give them more money?

The errata is not behind the paywall.

hafrogman · May 27, 2012

HolyMan said:
Well this bites. Looks like my 4e might not take off after all. And I really like these adventures.

I hope you won't let one overzealous fan's opinion completely turn you off of trying 4e. The fact remains that without errata, with no changes, just straight from the book, 4e is a completely functional, playable and enjoyable system.

Kzach is trying to present the system at its most polished, at it's most comprehensive. But given that 5e is at least on the horizon, there is little point in trying to "sell" anyone on 4e at this point. I'd rather you got a chance to at least see some of it in action so you can recognize what worked, and what didn't, what you like and what you don't.

4e has its share of strong detractors, but there a lot of good ideas there too. Good ideas that a lot of people choose to ignore or reject because they don't like how they were presented. So here's hoping you carry through with your plan. There is really no barricade to running a successful campaign within the limits you outlined.

HolyMan · May 27, 2012

drothgery said:
Well, consider that most of the errata for the PHB is changes to powers (and if they're powers for classes no one is playing, or for higher-level powers, you don't need to worry about it). There are six pages of errata for the DMG, and three of them are about mounted combat, flying, and skill challenges (of which only the last is likely to be relevant). Same goes for the four pages of Monster Manual errata only more so; most of it is for monsters a low-level party has no business running into.

Right I can just mess with getting the errata as it comes up in the game then. I thought maybe it was huge/game changing.

Kzach said:
Or you could just not be cheap and spend $9 to get DDI access like everyone else does.

I think we have different ideals there. I was thinking of purchasing the books and supplements that my players wanted added in the most. So a book @ $40 every three months or so, is more than $9 bucks a month.

Weren't you one of the people that said the Character Builder was full of Clutter?

I don't wish to support the DDI for probably the same reasons you don't wish to support EnWorld - not really going to use it enough to dish out money ever month.

rangerjohn said:
No! Everyone does not. This, just gives credence to people who say its all about the money. Your saying they put out a game that wasn't playable? Your further stating that the cure for this to stop them from doing this again, is to give them more money? Looks like we need to stick with PF, HM.

I get what he is saying, and it looks like he wants me to come play on even terms with everyone else out there. But that's just it I'm not.

drothgery was right the errata you can get for free, so that isn't the reason behind why they created the DDI.

Hopefully for that money you also get extras like bonus powers, races, monsters, locations, and encounters that someone who's not an "Insider" could get.

PF is my game of choice do to it's playability not because everyone is playing it.

hafrogman said:
I hope you won't let one overzealous fan's opinion completely turn you off of trying 4e. The fact remains that without errata, with no changes, just straight from the book, 4e is a completely functional, playable and enjoyable system.

Kzach is trying to present the system at its most polished, at it's most comprehensive. But given that 5e is at least on the horizon, there is little point in trying to "sell" anyone on 4e at this point. I'd rather you got a chance to at least see some of it in action so you can recognize what worked, and what didn't, what you like and what you don't.

4e has its share of strong detractors, but there a lot of good ideas there too. Good ideas that a lot of people choose to ignore or reject because they don't like how they were presented. So here's hoping you carry through with your plan. There is really no barricade to running a successful campaign within the limits you outlined.

I have thought about it all day and I hope to find people like me (limited experience with 4e) who wish to give the game it's do. So the game is on and it is still limited to the PHB to start and I hope [MENTION=56189]Kzach[/MENTION] still follows along when we start up to help out.

HM

drothgery · May 27, 2012

HolyMan said:
Right I can just mess with getting the errata as it comes up in the game then. I thought maybe it was huge/game changing.

And it's mostly not; it's more "no, that game-breaking exploit won't work" or "to work better with new stuff, this item/power/feat should also have this keyword".

HolyMan said:
I think we have different ideals there. I was thinking of purchasing the books and supplements that my players wanted added in the most. So a book @ $40 every three months or so, is more than $9 bucks a month.

Weren't you one of the people that said the Character Builder was full of Clutter?

... and while the character builder certainly makes building a 4e character a lot easier, it certainly is full of clutter (because every option that ever saw print or a Dungeon or Dragon online article is there, save for a few articles specifically called out).

The core rules-ish stuff was most recently printed in the Rules Compendium (part of the Essentials line); there have been no updates for that book.

HolyMan said:
Hopefully for that money you also get extras like bonus powers, races, monsters, locations, and encounters that someone who's not an "Insider" could get.

Well, it's essentially a subscription to Dungeon and Dragon + access to the D&Di tools (character builder, monster sort-of-builder, compendium, virtual tabletop beta). When the offline character builder was supported, it wasn't uncommon for people to get a one-month D&Di subscription to grab the latest stuff for the character builder every few months.

HolyMan said:
I have thought about it all day and I hope to find people like me (limited experience with 4e) who wish to give the game it's do. So the game is on and it is still limited to the PHB to start and I hope @Kzach still follows along when we start up to help out.

FWIW, although in theory I rather like 4e, almost all of my experience with it has been PBP-ing.