Long Rest - Regain Full Hit Points

Janaxstrus · May 25, 2012

I'll play it as written for now, but I'd prefer a little harsher in the final game.

I am one of those people who likes to see a balanced party though, so I expect to see a cleric or someone with the ability to heal outside of combat making it a non-issue. There should be drawbacks, in my world, for not bringing a healer. Just like there should be for not having a mage or a rogue or a fighter type.

ren1999 · May 25, 2012

Which idea do you like better?

Healing to maximum hit points at the end of an extended rest? ..which I find to be very implausible.

Or my proposal that someone with healing ability mass heals everyone during the extended rest and prepares healing potions that can be used during an encounter? It frees up the cleric to fight if each character uses his or her own standard action to drink a potion.

Nobody seems to want healing surges but I'm telling you, as your GM -- YOU gonna die if you don't go into my encounters with full HP.

As for rolling for hit points, players always roll high because they tell me, "I rolled at home." They resent it when I ask them to roll again in front of the group. So I just say, give a character the initial constitution score + a static number of hit points every level-up. For fighter types +12hp, Rogue types +10, Cleric types +8, and Wizard types +6 hit points per level-up. Those static hit points make it very easy to design challenging encounters that almost kill off the entire party but do not.

Roland55 · May 25, 2012

Sir Robilar said:
It really bothers me. Is there any in-game explanation for it?

It's just too early for that. Heck, the new game hardly exists yet ... just these fragments of rules for play-testing.

If this rule, or anything similar to it, does stick around -- I think we can trust this crew to give us an "in-game" explanation for it.

Herremann the Wise · May 25, 2012

ren1999 said:
Which idea do you like better?

Healing to maximum hit points at the end of an extended rest? ..which I find to be very implausible.

Or my proposal that someone with healing ability mass heals everyone during the extended rest and prepares healing potions that can be used during an encounter? It frees up the cleric to fight if each character uses his or her own standard action to drink a potion.

Neither as both seem superficial and make assumptions that cannot be held to in everyone's game. The first assumes your world has super-healing unless you ensure that only when the character reaches zero or negatives are they truly hurt (which in some ways I can live with so long as this option is supported). The second assumes that you have a character with such skills in the party and with the resources to do it; neither of which should be a given. Such a method fails to give a nod to reality or economics (which of course is fine for some groups but not for all). Essentially, I feel that the core rules should support all interpretations (an almost impossible task when talking hit points).

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

Reaper Steve · May 25, 2012

I'm mostly on board with recovering all HP during a long rest. To paraphrase the Hit Points description on p.12, ultimately HP represent the ability to avoid a direct hit that causes injury or trauma that could result in death. After 8 hrs rest, the wounded warrior has recovered from the exhaustion of fighting and the immediate pain of his wounds to the point that he can effectively defend himself for another day. The wound isn't gone, it just doesn't have a game effect.

Hit Points are actually 'Defense Points.' D&D has always resolved attacks in a backwards fashion. The attack roll is actually saying "if the target did nothing to actively defend itself, would this attack penetrate its armor and natural reflexes?" If it 'hits,' the damage actually represents how much skill, luck, and grit it took for the target to avoid a potentially lethal wound.

As others have said, a slower rate of healing is normally hand-waved anyway. "WE leave the dungeon for a day" or "We leave the dungeon for a week" takes the same amount of time to say and resolve at the table.

As far as staying the night in the dungeon, I think the Long Rest rules give enough leeway for the DM to prevent abuse. Those rules state 8 hours of rest, of which 2 hours can be light activity. If the PCs effectively conceal themselves in a dungeon and remain undiscovered, sure let them benefit. BUt if they just bar themselves in a room with monsters growling outside and bashing at the doors... sorry, that does not qualify as a long rest. Have fun fighting your way out now.

Lanefan · May 25, 2012

pemerton said:
The name for the spell you're looking for is Death's Door, isn't it (3rd level cleric spell, AD&D UA).

Ah, Death's Door - a wonderful train wreck of a spell.

Question: what is the death point in 5e? -10? -Con score? -half full h.p.? It's obviously not 0, as you only go unconscious then.

Also, there ought to be some sort of mechanic to get away from the too-binary conscious at +1, unconscious at 0 divide. We have it that if you go below 0 you need to roll a d20 less than your con score modified by your current h.p. total to stay conscious (though at significant penalties to do anything except crawl away)...thus, if you have Con. 14 and you're at -6 you need to roll 8 or lower to stay conscious. I'd almost certainly houserule this straight in to 5e if something like it wasn't already there.

Lanefan

slobster · May 25, 2012

Lanefan said:
Question: what is the death point in 5e? -10? -Con score? -half full h.p.? It's obviously not 0, as you only go unconscious then.

Lanefan

Pg 13 of How to Play. Would listing the actual rule here violate our playtesting policy? I'll play it safe for now . . .

Blackwarder · May 25, 2012

Iirc, they said that characters hp is ramped up for the first playtest packet, considering what we know from mike L&L column I'd guess that it's more of the same.

Warder

pemerton · May 25, 2012

Lanefan said:
Ah, Death's Door - a wonderful train wreck of a spell.

Why a train wreck?

Campbell · May 25, 2012

Death is at -(Constitution+ Level). At 0 hp you start making Con Saves vs. DC 10. Failure results in 1d6 damage. 3 saves = stable. Of course a single Coupe de Gras takes you from 0 hp to dead.