D&D Next (5E) Ed Greenwood to write 5E's Forgotten Realms - Page 6




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  1. #51
    Should be fun to see what comes out of this! It will be good to see Ed back to having a hand in the Realms.

 

  • #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenes View Post
    I like FR for the rich setting, and the details it added, and the history. I don't really use all the high-level NPCs.
    Yeah, I am usually able to work in the niches of the Realms pretty easily when I run games there. The high-level NPCs rarely come to play or are certainly far from focus of the story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Agent View Post
    I have little patience with 1st level characters who think they're the Kings of the World. You want to deal with the kinds of problems that Elminster is dealing with? Work for it. You want to be as important as Han Solo? Earn it.
    Except that they can't, ever.

    Elminster is built with a whole bunch of specialised templates and rules exceptions such that it is impossible for a character to start at 1st level RAW and advance to match him.

    Likewise, while Han Solo is typically presented in such a manner as to be technically rules-legal, his stats are so incredibly high that you would need to use random rolls and cheat to have a hope of matching him. Under the recommended chargen method from the books (and, incidentally, the required method for organised play), it is not possible to generate a "1st level Han".

    The iconic characters in these settings are out of reach for PCs in the games intended to replicate their adventures.

    But anyway...

    "Oh no! My viking PC is totally trivialized by the existence of Thor!"
    My big objection is not so much the existence of those high-level NPCs. It's that the text I quoted makes it clear that whatever they do, the PCs are largely irrelevant.

    They saved the village? Why, if it weren't for Elminster, there wouldn't even be a village to save!

    In fact, the only reason there are even adventures for the PCs to have is that the problems they solve are not important enough for Elminster to bother with.

    It makes the PCs sidekicks in their own story. As I said, that text has no business being anywhere near a 5e Realms book.

  • #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by GX.Sigma View Post
    I don't know anything about Star Wars RPGs, but I don't think Han Solo should a 1st-level character.
    You mistake my intention. Perhaps I just wasn't clear. Allow me to clarify.

    I'm not saying that you should be able to build a 1st level character who is the equal of Han Solo.

    What I am saying is that you should be able to build a 1st level character who, through his adventures, gaining XP and levels, and following the RAW, should be able to grow to a point where he becomes the equal of Han Solo.

    (If Han Solo is 15th level, say, then it should be possible to build a character at 1st level who, if he chooses all the same skills, talents and feats, then by the time he reaches 15th level will have the same stats as Han Solo. In all three of the d20 versions of Star Wars, this is only possible if you use random rolls - which are disallowed for Organised Play - and have freakishly good luck on the rolls. Effectively, you have to cheat.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Agent View Post
    That's a separate issue (which also hasn't been true for all versions of the Realms) and has nothing to do with what your originally quoted.
    No, but it has a great deal to do with the second post I quoted, where you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Agent View Post
    I have little patience with 1st level characters who think they're the Kings of the World. You want to deal with the kinds of problems that Elminster is dealing with? Work for it.
    If it is impossible for the PCs to "work for it" as you say, then the objection is justified.

    The text actually says the exact opposite of that.

    It's like claiming that any RPG set in the latter half of the 20th century makes the PCs "largely irrelevant" because other people have the power to declare nuclear war and render their accomplishments moot.
    If the game's about nuclear brinksmanship, and the PCs get to courier documents while James Bond deals with the real menaces - and the book makes it clear that this is what's going on, then you're damn right I'd be annoyed.

    (And if you actually believe that, you must not have a very high opinion of your own, apparently irrelevant life.)
    Funnily enough, I'm not the protagonist in a fictional story.

    In any event, last I checked, it was at least theoretically possible for me to reach a point where I would have control of a nuclear arsenal.

    I remain unimpressed with the whining.
    Conversely, I am unimpressed with your insults.

  • #56
    I'm curious. For those who say that we should go back to the Grey box Realms, which, IIRC, is a couple of hundred pages long, at best, why is the three 4e FR material viewed as "ripping apart the tapestry" of Realmslore?

    I mean, if you want to go back to a much more open Realms, isn't that exactly what 4e gave you?
    The rules don't give the DM their authority. The consent of the players does. - Mallus

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    Great find, thanks!


    (and we need xp back).
    A semi-brief History of D&D and some other RPGs: Part 1: 1967-1979 Part 2: 1980-1989
    All the official stuff for 4e
    Bonus:

    4E has rituals, use them, they're magic;
    Want to see the greatest thing you will ever see? then click;
    You can use “Earth” as a D&D setting;
    Origins of The Rouse; (look for it)
    The Rouse responds; (look for it)
    One can appreciate both old and new D&D.

  • #58
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    Getting Ed Greenwood on board to work on the Realms, and indeed as the primary voice in the Realms, is a good thing. That said, I do think they also need a strong editorial presence if only to rein in some of Ed's madder impulses.

    ... and especially where the likes of Elminster is concerned. While Elminster (and Drizzt) are iconic characters and sell a lot of novels, they're quite poisonous to the Realms as a game setting. Frankly, the RPG setting would be best served by killing them off. Given that they won't that, they need to be really careful when writing the book to place the PCs in centre stage.

    In particular:

    Elminster is the eccentric old Sage of Shadowdale, who sometimes provides information to adventurers who come looking for it, but more often is much too busy with more important matters.

    <snip>

    While ordinary adventurers (including player characters as well as the protagonists of many other novels) are saving villages from the Zhentarim or slaying drow in the Underdark, Elminster is ensuring that the likes of Larloch and Manshoon aren't wreaking such great havoc on the world that all those smaller heroics are rendered moot. Without adventurers, the village would be overrun by the Zhents; without Elminster, there'd be no village to save.
    This text has absolutely no place in the RPG setting book - it totally trivialises anything that the PCs might accomplish in the setting.

    (FWIW, both Dragonlance and Star Wars have exactly the same problem - the section of the timeline that most people are interested in is also the one dominated by a set of iconic heroes that loom extremely large over anything the PCs might do. It's a delicate balancing act for GMs and writers to keep the PCs at the centre of their story, while acknowledging Luke, Han, Tanis, Caramon, and the rest.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenes View Post
    That's included in "prior to the end of 3E".
    The Time of Troubles occurs between 1e and 2e actually.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Fathers of the Game
    R.I.P.
    Ernest Gary Gygax | David Lance Arneson
    07/27/1938 – 03/04/2008 | 10/01/1947 – 04/07/2009
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  • #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Scribble View Post
    I would like to see them do what they do with all the star wars games... Just release the realms with different "era" books and let US choose where/when we want to set our campaigns.
    Yeah, I even do this now when I run a game in the Realms. Choose my spot in the timeline and drop my campaign in there.

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