D&D 5E Ed Greenwood to write 5E's Forgotten Realms

Salamandyr · Jun 7, 2012

It seems to me that FR's focus on powerful NPC's has a lot to do with 2nd editions editorial stance toward storyline settings. Pretty much every campaign setting, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, suffered from it during the same time. Dark Sun may possibly be the worst. There's a whole module that consists of the players following the heroic NPC's as they overthrow the Sorcerer King. Bleh. Everything was a novel tie-in. TSR wanted campaign settings that were essentially storybooks, and you can't have a coherent storyline when you don't control the main characters.

I guess that, with the prominence of the Realms, that problem is just that turned up to 11. It doesn't seem like it was a huge problem in 1e, or 3e, or even 4th. It's just a bad taste left over from 2nd edition, and too many players believing that they have to let the novels influence their campaigns.

GMforPowergamers · Jun 7, 2012

My pitch is reset to day 1 box set, put a hard cap on all NPCs that they can't be higher then 2 levels below normal pc max (so if phb is 1-20 then npc cap at 18) make Elminster an immortal sage with only 1 or 2 spells, and lots of rituals.

Then the novels never work as cannon

Janaxstrus · Jun 7, 2012

GMforPowergamers said:
I DM more then play, and as a dm the realms suck.

MY best example was i wanted to use the red wizards as a villan. I already had many problems in the campain, but when the PCs found out that at level 7 they had to stop a evoker 5/ red wizard 5 and her small army from invading a country... there answer was to instead of comeing up with a plan, go get symbol...

I can be more detailed, but point blank there are 100 high level NPCs in my hombrew world and none of them are expected to take center stage... but in fr there are 20+ ones that everyone feels should.

Run a game in ebberon no problem... dark sun same thing. 4e realms no problem... 1e-3e realmes JLM rules the world

It's The Simbul, fyi.

It's a testament to the world building itself that the players know and care about the NPCs that exist. That is why FR is my favorite setting. I couldn't give a rodent's backside about anyone in Eberron, Dark Sun or the 4e realms.
Pre-4e destroying the Forgotten Realms, I cared about the people, places and events that occurred. There was so much GOOD material, that it was great to DM. The players themselves knew locations, gods, NPCs, and things thta had happened, just like a PC that was born and raised there would. It was immersive.

None of my players, however, encountered the big bad NPCs. They never thought "We should go tell Elminster". They were the heroes. Those other people just existed elsewhere, doing their thing and saving the world their way. My players attitude was "We got this, we don't need their help"

Zaukrie · Jun 7, 2012

If you have a campaign world wit demots and dragons, you have uber powerful npcs, it is just in the realms, your characters know their names. I have never understood this dislike of powerful good guys in the realms, as that seems super realistic to me.

I agree, the neverwinter setting book for 4e is awesome.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

avin · Jun 7, 2012

Incenjucar said:
Next there'll be a text block about how Elminster refuses to return the Lady of Pain's calls after he decided she was too needy.

Could we please let Her Serenity out of this mess?

Drowbane · Jun 7, 2012

Incenjucar said:
...FR reinforces the notion that you aren't heroes, you're JANITORS...

My condolences for what your FR DM put you through. My experiences with the Realms have been great. Once Planescape came out, all of our campaigns eventually went out into the Planes. Perhaps this is the reason that our high level characters never gave a damn about "competing with Elminster".

My FR characters were HEROES, not janitors. Ok, some of them were semi-villainous... but my point stands.

Even if the Setting (Greenwood's influence) would dictate that the PCs must be lesser characters, and I do not believe they do, then it is still up to your DM to run the game. If he made your characters secondary, the failing is with him.

IanB · Jun 7, 2012

Zaukrie said:
If you have a campaign world wit demots and dragons, you have uber powerful npcs, it is just in the realms, your characters know their names. I have never understood this dislike of powerful good guys in the realms, as that seems super realistic to me.

I agree, the neverwinter setting book for 4e is awesome.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

It actually goes well beyond just the name characters from the novels though; every little 2 line village description seems to include some level 23 wizard/archmage/odd multiclass combo person who just happens to live there.

Incenjucar · Jun 7, 2012

Drowbane said:
up to your DM

I consider this a design flaw.

I feel it should take an act of will on the DM's part to make a setting unpleasant. If a DM has to have particular skill to play the game as written in a way than is enjoyable then I feel the game is written poorly.

Mind you, I'm happy for people who like FR to have FR. But I don't know that I could ever be convinced to play in it as-written.

an_idol_mind · Jun 7, 2012

My lasting impression of the Forgotten Realms is that it's fun to play in but not so fun to talk about to many Realms fans.

I played and ran Forgotten Realms through much of 2nd edition and had a lot of fun with it. I used the 2nd edition boxed set, which was pretty cool. I'm pretty sure one of the books recommended marking up the maps to fit your game.

I remember one of my PCs getting into an argument with Elminster and throwing a punch at him. He connected and did only one point of damage, but rolled under the knockout chance on the punching and wrestling table. So Elminster went down.

When I told this story to some friends, I got referred to a half-dozen supplements that introduced things like Elminster being a Chosen of Mystra and his Elminster's evasion spell that would have nullified the encounter. But none of those supplements were in play - according to the boxed set, Elminster was 500 years old, an imbiber of potions of longevity, and the student of Arkhon the Old.

I responded with, "I guess Elminster forgot to cast his contingencies that day." Much gnashing of teeth occurred and I was informed that I sucked as a gamer.

Personally, I think the Realms is a lot of fun. The only reason I dropped them is because I got more invested in the homebrew I run. The only bad part about them is the number of fanatics who tell people they're doing it wrong - and those guys will be around no matter what happens to the setting.

(Minor note: Elminster got up in a few rounds and cooler heads prevailed.)

Drowbane · Jun 7, 2012

Incenjucar said:
I consider this a design flaw...

Every aspect of any RPG is "up to your DM". If your DM happens to be an asshat, your game is in trouble. Using Elminster to make the PCs feel small = Asshat DM, regardless of what is and isn't written into the setting.

I'll look up that greybox module later to see if "Elminster showing up to heal the party" is even part of it... or if its something your DM used as a safety net.