Rogue Magic User

Starfox · Jun 5, 2012

Would a rogue with the Magic User theme be able to sneak attack with Magic Missile?

*Sneak attack works with advantage.
*Magic Missile autohits, and thus does not use advantage
* This does not, however, imply that Magic Missile cannot HAVE advantage; it just doesn't get any benefit normally.

The benefit (if allowed) would be that the mediocre damage of Magic Missile is made up for by the extra damage from Sneak Attack, and Sneak Attack would always occur.

This is a quibble, but it highlights some rules-writing issues. Rules must be both readable, clearly understandable, and handle special cases. All at once.

the Jester · Jun 5, 2012

My ruling would be- no, you have to roll to hit with advantage to gain sneak attack.

And let's give them a break on how we parse things for now; we're far, far away from having the final wording of anything at this point.

Kaodi · Jun 5, 2012

I seriously doubt it. However, sneak attack would work perfectly with shocking grasp, I believe.

BobTheNob · Jun 5, 2012

I dont think the question is WOULD a rogue be able to, the question is SHOULD a rogue be able to.

For my part, No.

Giltonio_Santos · Jun 5, 2012

I'd say no for a simple reason: magic missile has no roll to hit, implying that the wizard doesn't aim it, he simply wishes his spell to hit a given target and it will hit that target unhindered by concerns such as aiming. On the other hand, the extra damage from sneak attack comes from the ability not only to surprise, but also to hit for the best spot, which the supernatural forces acting on a magic missile are not strong enough to do. That's how I would justify saying no to my players on this issue...

Cheers,

GX.Sigma · Jun 5, 2012

Some spells tell you to make attacks. Magic Missile is not one of those spells. It's not an attack, so it's not a sneak attack. It magically aims itself, so the rogue can't use his sneakiness to improve his aim.

Minigiant · Jun 5, 2012

The rogue character sheet says "When you hat a target..."

Magic Missile doesn't hit. The target just takes damage.

No Sneak attack magic missile.

CleverNickName · Jun 5, 2012

Starfox said:
This...highlights some rules-writing issues. Rules must be both readable, clearly understandable, and handle special cases. All at once.

Hear, hear.
This should be every playtester's mantra.

DEFCON 1 · Jun 6, 2012

Minigiant said:
The rogue character sheet says "When you hat a target..."

Magic Missile doesn't hit. The target just takes damage.

No Sneak attack magic missile.

However, the wizard's Magic Sombrero DOES hat the target, and thus Sneak A Cap would apply in this case.

windywinter · Jun 6, 2012

Shocking Grasp gives advantage on metallic or medium/heavy armour - so it would give rogue 1d8+1d6 automatically (if hit of course). Why use hiding! :>