Monster Design in D&D Next
- Thread starter Wizards of the Coast
- Start date
Andor
First Post
I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if it's been said but the one real issue I see with the design is making echolocation an exception based ability. We've had blindsight for 2.5 editions now, and that's exactly what it is.
Exception based design is a powerful tool, but it must not be overused. Echolocation/blindsight is an extremely common ability, it makes sense to retain it as a generic trait in 5e.
If something has the ability to see souls, or finds it's prey by smelling their breath like a chinese vampire, then by all means give it's unique senses their own write up, but not something as generic as echolocation.
Exception based design is a powerful tool, but it must not be overused. Echolocation/blindsight is an extremely common ability, it makes sense to retain it as a generic trait in 5e.
If something has the ability to see souls, or finds it's prey by smelling their breath like a chinese vampire, then by all means give it's unique senses their own write up, but not something as generic as echolocation.
howandwhy99
Adventurer
Here's my suggestion in a nutshell: Perhaps we could go with a universal key of statistics for creatures (and everything else) in the game? Then individual listings would only need to account for and list relevant stats to get rid of excessive redundancy and cross over. For example, the following could be a Monster Manual (MM) listing because it is referring to the entire breed of monster:
[sblock]Name (genus, family, order, etc.)
SZ: Size (S,M,L) with option to further define (i.e. 6' high, 19' wingspan, reach)
MV: Movement Rates (standard is on ground) Swim, Fly, Webs, Climb, etc.
AC: Rating with components
HP: # of hit points; HD: # and type
AT: #, type, and damage
SA: (special attacks / feats / powers / spells)
SQ: Special Qualties, like auras, blinking, darkvision, etc.
MR: Magical Resistance, immunities, etc.
AS: Average Ability Scores for the monster S 10, D 10, C 10, I 10, W 10, Ch 10
AL: alignment; (optional) ML: Morale; LO: Loyalty;
FQ: (optional stat)frequency, No: Number Appearing %L Percent in lair
TT: Treasure Type
XP: XP rating[/sblock]All Spells Known could then be treated like Treasure, listed under a separate paragraph to track for individuals, groups, and changed as events unravel.
These "Master Stat" entries are useful for reference to common and unchanged statistics across all a unique monsters of a single breed. Plus, these would allow for already averaged mass scale actions by the same creatures . (Maybe we'll see "Any weapon" or "Finesse weapons" in the MM spread with averaged damage? Perhaps we'll see mass actions whether it be battles, commerce, migration, politics, or something else?)
Individual monster stats could then be shortened considerably from this MM entry, but extended with its own stats unique to each individual monster. (Unique stats would also need to be defined in the DMG or MM). For example, the monster and NPC stats in Caves of Chaos have been wonderfully short. (thank you). By supplementing the unique monster in the text with the overview in the MM (as desired per DM) I can get everything I need to run any element of the game that includes creatures both quickly and easily.
[sblock]Name (Monster, Race, and/or Class), MV, Init, AC, hp, AT: (and damage), SA (unique), SQ (unique)
AS: "Name"'s particular ability scores.
PP: (optional stat) psionic powers and/or spells prepped.
EQ: Equipment and magic items on hand.[/sblock]Listed seperately are Spells Known, in a spellbook, not prepped, along with property not on the person (granted authorities and the like).
Special Abilities each get a detailed entry too.
So... the Hooked Horror would look something like this:
[sblock]Hook Horror (Magical Creation, Kaomeister)
>> Source (White Dwarf #12, Fiend Folio, Dragon #131)
SZ: Large; 5' space, 10' reach
MV: 30', Climb 30'
IN: +1
AC: 17
HP: 60 (HD & type?)
AT: (Melee) 2 Hooks +5 (1d10+4 pierce & impale); the hook horror cannot use a hook to attack if a victim is impaled on it
SA: Impale, Twist and Bite
SQ: Echolocation
MR:
AS: S 18, D 12, C 15, I 6, W 12, Ch 9 (or S+4, D+1, C+2, I-2, W+1, Ch-1)
AL:
FQ:
TT:
XP: 450
Two hooks +5 (1d10 + 4 piercing, and impale); the hook horror cannot use a hook to attack if a victim is impaled on it
Impale An impaled target can escape by using its action to succeed at a DC 12 Strength check.
Twist and Bite Any creature currently impaled by the hook horror takes 1d10 + 4 piercing damage. In addition, the hook horror can automatically bite an impaled creature for 2d6 + 4 extra damage.
Echolocation A hook horror ignores anything that obscures vision within 120 feet. A creature can attempt to hide only if a physical object completely obscures it from view. It can remain hidden as long as it remains behind such an object or ends its turn behind one.[/sblock]And the Adventure Modules statblock:
[sblock]Avon Calling (Hook Horror), MV 30' Climb 30', Init+1, AC 17, 60 hp, AT: 2 hooks +5 (1d10+4 pierce & impale); SA: Impale, Twist and Bite, SQ: Echolocation
AS: S 18, D 12, C 15, I 6, W 12, Ch 9[/sblock]Ability Scores are unchanged, but pretend I rolled them up for this guy in particular. PP & EQ are left off as both are "none". Redundancies like the entries for SA and SQ are kept in because Avon here could lose those abilities even though all Hook Horrors may not. I'd say repeating a detailed listing of special abilities isn't necessary either (so I didn't), but it's probably up to the individual / publisher. SA's unique to Avon Calling would definitely need to be included.
[sblock]Name (genus, family, order, etc.)
SZ: Size (S,M,L) with option to further define (i.e. 6' high, 19' wingspan, reach)
MV: Movement Rates (standard is on ground) Swim, Fly, Webs, Climb, etc.
AC: Rating with components
HP: # of hit points; HD: # and type
AT: #, type, and damage
SA: (special attacks / feats / powers / spells)
SQ: Special Qualties, like auras, blinking, darkvision, etc.
MR: Magical Resistance, immunities, etc.
AS: Average Ability Scores for the monster S 10, D 10, C 10, I 10, W 10, Ch 10
AL: alignment; (optional) ML: Morale; LO: Loyalty;
FQ: (optional stat)frequency, No: Number Appearing %L Percent in lair
TT: Treasure Type
XP: XP rating[/sblock]All Spells Known could then be treated like Treasure, listed under a separate paragraph to track for individuals, groups, and changed as events unravel.
These "Master Stat" entries are useful for reference to common and unchanged statistics across all a unique monsters of a single breed. Plus, these would allow for already averaged mass scale actions by the same creatures . (Maybe we'll see "Any weapon" or "Finesse weapons" in the MM spread with averaged damage? Perhaps we'll see mass actions whether it be battles, commerce, migration, politics, or something else?)
Individual monster stats could then be shortened considerably from this MM entry, but extended with its own stats unique to each individual monster. (Unique stats would also need to be defined in the DMG or MM). For example, the monster and NPC stats in Caves of Chaos have been wonderfully short. (thank you). By supplementing the unique monster in the text with the overview in the MM (as desired per DM) I can get everything I need to run any element of the game that includes creatures both quickly and easily.
[sblock]Name (Monster, Race, and/or Class), MV, Init, AC, hp, AT: (and damage), SA (unique), SQ (unique)
AS: "Name"'s particular ability scores.
PP: (optional stat) psionic powers and/or spells prepped.
EQ: Equipment and magic items on hand.[/sblock]Listed seperately are Spells Known, in a spellbook, not prepped, along with property not on the person (granted authorities and the like).
Special Abilities each get a detailed entry too.
So... the Hooked Horror would look something like this:
[sblock]Hook Horror (Magical Creation, Kaomeister)
>> Source (White Dwarf #12, Fiend Folio, Dragon #131)
SZ: Large; 5' space, 10' reach
MV: 30', Climb 30'
IN: +1
AC: 17
HP: 60 (HD & type?)
AT: (Melee) 2 Hooks +5 (1d10+4 pierce & impale); the hook horror cannot use a hook to attack if a victim is impaled on it
SA: Impale, Twist and Bite
SQ: Echolocation
MR:
AS: S 18, D 12, C 15, I 6, W 12, Ch 9 (or S+4, D+1, C+2, I-2, W+1, Ch-1)
AL:
FQ:
TT:
XP: 450
Two hooks +5 (1d10 + 4 piercing, and impale); the hook horror cannot use a hook to attack if a victim is impaled on it
Impale An impaled target can escape by using its action to succeed at a DC 12 Strength check.
Twist and Bite Any creature currently impaled by the hook horror takes 1d10 + 4 piercing damage. In addition, the hook horror can automatically bite an impaled creature for 2d6 + 4 extra damage.
Echolocation A hook horror ignores anything that obscures vision within 120 feet. A creature can attempt to hide only if a physical object completely obscures it from view. It can remain hidden as long as it remains behind such an object or ends its turn behind one.[/sblock]And the Adventure Modules statblock:
[sblock]Avon Calling (Hook Horror), MV 30' Climb 30', Init+1, AC 17, 60 hp, AT: 2 hooks +5 (1d10+4 pierce & impale); SA: Impale, Twist and Bite, SQ: Echolocation
AS: S 18, D 12, C 15, I 6, W 12, Ch 9[/sblock]Ability Scores are unchanged, but pretend I rolled them up for this guy in particular. PP & EQ are left off as both are "none". Redundancies like the entries for SA and SQ are kept in because Avon here could lose those abilities even though all Hook Horrors may not. I'd say repeating a detailed listing of special abilities isn't necessary either (so I didn't), but it's probably up to the individual / publisher. SA's unique to Avon Calling would definitely need to be included.
Aberzanzorax
Hero
Actually, I'm going to fork this. Seems you guys are mostly talking about the the crunch of the article, the stat blocks, which is cool.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/new-ho...eings-rather-than-statblocks.html#post5943006
http://www.enworld.org/forum/new-ho...eings-rather-than-statblocks.html#post5943006
Last edited:
Philousk
Explorer
Lanefan said:
According to this page, it would appear so, but I do not know if it will be really well with this new edition.
Its eyes, however, are multifaceted like that of an insect.
My vision for this.
This type of ocular organ "ocelli and ommatidia" normally gives excellent peripheral vision, but sometimes sensitive to the polarization of light. So, like the fly, it makes it very quick to respond. A duet with his sense of echolocation, the hook horror should be difficult to surprise while enjoying both a lot of promptness and initiative: sensory perfect ingredients to make it a formidable hunter.
tomBitonti
Adventurer
Aaaaagh This is not design!
Hmph.
Converting an existing monster is not design! It's an exercise in conversion to a new format.
The starting point for design might be to explain how the monster was intended to fit into an encounter, and how it might fit into an ongoing story, and how it might fit into a campaign world.
To reverse engineer the hook horror: Melee type monster that has a strong attack followup which will require players to react quickly to avoid losing that player, and that can lock down a player for a short while. Suitable for an environment where climbing is useful. At about the power level of an ogre, or perhaps a troll. A monster that is useful as a surprise attacker for an exploratory party.
TomB
Hmph.
Converting an existing monster is not design! It's an exercise in conversion to a new format.
The starting point for design might be to explain how the monster was intended to fit into an encounter, and how it might fit into an ongoing story, and how it might fit into a campaign world.
To reverse engineer the hook horror: Melee type monster that has a strong attack followup which will require players to react quickly to avoid losing that player, and that can lock down a player for a short while. Suitable for an environment where climbing is useful. At about the power level of an ogre, or perhaps a troll. A monster that is useful as a surprise attacker for an exploratory party.
TomB
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