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Saturday, 7th July, 2012, 10:46 AM #241
Novice (Lvl 1)
If you would, please have a look at this blog. It highlights exactly what is wrong with the gaming community when it comes to females. Thanks.
It's amazing that women in the geek community can act like this and be rewarded. bit.ly/OECqUp
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Saturday, 7th July, 2012, 11:01 AM #242
Enchanter (Lvl 12)
Very interesting, thanks for posting.
Saturday, 7th July, 2012, 12:04 PM #243
Superhero (Lvl 15)
Many of us, myself included, found the contest to be creepy, sexist, and disturbing. We expected all of the finalists to be "hot babes" (in the language of the 1of9 folks) with little real connection to tabletop gaming.
It's somewhat heartening that someone who isn't "traditionally attractive" (whatever that means) was chosen as a finalist . . . . but the G+ blog post that you linked to shows that "non-traditionally attractive" gamer women can sometimes be a part of the problem by hating on "skinny blonde white girls".
I've seen that sort of behavior before from women I've known who weren't "traditionally attractive", that they found it easy to hate on the beautiful girls. And some of the "traditionally" beautiful girls I've known have experienced hate and discrimination because of their looks, which seems counter-intuitive, but isn't.
And, I guess, that sorts of sums up my problem with the 1of9 contest, it was just ugly all around . . . . despite many of the contestants, and finalists, being true gamer women and being very charismatic, traditionally and otherwise.
Reverse sexism is just as much as problem as your good old "normal" sexism.
Saturday, 7th July, 2012, 12:17 PM #244
Novice (Lvl 1)
The idea that my 14 years of cosplay experience (and yes I make my own costumes), fact that I have been a convention guest at conventions all over the US as well as in Japan, Italy, Germany, Russia, Chile, Mexico and the UK, and that I've been playing games since I was old enough to play the neighbor's Atari should be dismissed because I happen to be slightly attractive/blonde/not fat is something I have had to deal with from women for a very long time.
I am a geek first and a model/actress/writer second. And on top of all that I have barely any friends because of this. Allowing someone to publicly denounce someone's "geek cred" because they are thin and blonde is preposterous. I have friends, women and men, of all shapes and sizes. Unfortunately many, many women are too insecure with themselves that they need to try to tear others down. It's sad.
Saturday, 7th July, 2012, 03:11 PM #245
Enchanter (Lvl 12)
Yeah it's sad. I've found that as a not beautiful, overweight woman I am actually expected to dislike women who look good and dress themselves to show it. I don't get that at all. I once got attacked in a store for helping a young, slim girl to find the right outfit for her brother's wedding.
There are several screws loose with some people.
Saturday, 7th July, 2012, 07:59 PM #246
Okay, as a woman some of these posts are really bothering me. I am one of the girls who did apply for the game, made it into the final round, and did not land a part.
First and foremost, there is nothing wrong with being an "attractive woman" in the gaming universe. Being attractive does NOT mean someone is unqualified. Most of you are talking about how sexism the gaming universe is, only employing "hot models" as booth babes or the face of their game, and while I can admit that's true, what about the flip side of the coin where if a woman is attractive it means that they are unqualified because of their looks?
What is wrong with you people? Don't you see the reverse sexism that's going on here?
Probably because of all these posts, a lot of the girls who tried-out for these parts and were models/cosplayers/actors were likely thrown by the wayside. How about everyone look at credentials first? A lot of the "attractive" women who applied have legit gaming experience to back them up. Isn't that the most important quality above all of the other bullcrap being talked about in this thread? ACTUAL experience? Being attractive as well, with the outgoing personality of an actor, the looks of a model, and the understanding of conventions that cosplayers usually have are just bonuses. CRAZY that they could potentially hire all of the above!
And you know what, being hired based on experience/looks (a healthy dose of both) isn't sexist. It's called life. Unfortunately due to all of this bitching, I don't know if Genesys RPG really gave a lot of the "attractive" girls much of a chance, even though some of their gaming experience rivaled that of the stereotypical nerdy girl, and even in some cases SURPASSED it.
Sunday, 8th July, 2012, 02:01 AM #247
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
Yep, I've been following this with interest as well. All the young ladies that applied had to have some experience with, and knowledge of RPG's. I think the pre-judgement and prejudices towards non-gamers in this thread reflects poorly on the RPG community here.
As I originally surmised, South Beach was completely oblivious to the general caterwauling and calls for boycott, and went on with their spectacularly successful event. At least 26 entries now being winnowed down to nine (plus maybe a backup or two).
...consider also, 1of9 hasn't posted since the original press release. Being a bit more open minded here might have opened up an ongoing dialogue with the gaming company that sponsored this new RPG, it seems now that might be unlikely.
If you really want more RPG gamers etiquette demands one accept them into the fold, and share experiences until a common meaningful dialogue evolves. Just because all of the players are not of the same alignment, doesn't mean they can't all get along for at least long enough to nab the big treasure from the real dragon in the dungeon.
Just' Sayin my peace.
Sunday, 8th July, 2012, 04:10 AM #248
Superhero (Lvl 15)
"Open a dialogue"? Why? While I wish no one harm or ill luck, whether Genesys succeeds or fails at their new gaming venture isn't all that big of a deal to me. They are a singular company that used some pretty skeevy marketing (IMO, of course). And besides, we DID have a dialogue, right in this very thread, with each other and with representatives of Genesys. While the overall thread opinion seems against Genesys' marketing choices, I think they were treated respectfully and weren't shouted down or shouted at.
Just sayin my peace, too.
Sunday, 8th July, 2012, 04:25 AM #249
Superhero (Lvl 15)
And, if you've read this entire thread, you'll find that the majority opinion isn't that "hot chicks aren't real gamers", but rather that Genesys' contest gives off a skeevy vibe. The reverse sexism we're talking about now just came up the past day or so, and most who've posted have expressed sympathy with Ginny with the treatment she received, not by Genesys, but by another "gamer girl" who is not "traditionally attractive" (or, at least, doesn't perceive herself to be) and has a hate-on for beautiful female gamers.
There's nothing wrong with beautiful women being geeks, gamers, and nerds too, and proudly at that. But I still stand by my opinion that the marketing and language Genesys used in their 1of9 contest was inappropriate, sends the wrong message, and was just outright skeevy. I have nothing against any woman who entered the contest (and likely isn't bothered by how Genesys ran and promoted it), "traditionally" beautiful or otherwise. Well, I do take issue with what Ginny's detractor said about her, but folks say mean things all the time that they really shouldn't, and I'd like to think the woman is an alright person overall.
I haven't been following who entered the contest, who became a finalist, and I won't likely notice when the "9" are chosen. I don't know how Genesys is making their decisions, whether they are discriminating against non-traditionally beautiful women (like we kinda expected in this thread) or whether in the reverse are discriminating against traditionally beautiful women instead. But I really, really doubt that me or anyone else being creeped out by the juvenile marketing had any effect on those decisions, and don't feel guilty in the least.
Sunday, 8th July, 2012, 11:37 AM #250
Enchanter (Lvl 12)
I didn't follow the contest as it creeped me out somewhat. But now I wonder how the complete composition of their "gamer chicks" will look like. Is there an even distribution of beautiful and not so much attractive? And have some choices been made by what type was already present (which might mean some more qualified might not been picked) or were the decisions totally random?
Despite the sexist art on their books, if they want to appeal to female gamers, or female wannabe gamers, the key is to represent women of all types. And most of us don't look like models or actors.
Also, you don't need to look like a model to dress up at cons (I hate the word cosplay, you don't play unless you LARP, you just go there in your costume). I've dressed up for most cons, and in fact some people pick costumes not benefiting their looks at all.
I can find my way around a convention, thank you, without having to look a model. In fact, I've organized cons and helped others organize them. I've worked in boots before, too. And I'd like to think I did a good job of it.
If you expect to be taken into consideration first because you look good, then that's just false entitlement. Oh, it might be a reality of life for you because there are way too many people blinded by looks, but I, for one, am glad it is not as bad anymore as it was 10 years ago.
Yes, one should look at credentials first. Then one needs to consider what mix of people is needed to make a good representation of the average female gamer. I don't know if they did that, I kind of doubt it based on the blog post as Ginny seems more qualified.
But unless they now rejected every beautiful girl in the contest for "non-traditionally attractive" gamers, I feel there is no need to complain. Because, you know, most of the time people only take a look at the not beautiful people and dismiss them before looking at any credentials at all. So having the table turned around every once in a while is not such a big tragedy.