New RPG Company Casting All Women for Genesys

Considering that almost every shot with a woman in it on their website depicts them in skin-tight, scantly-clad outfits yeah....shameless. I'm all for a little cheese here and there, but this is a pretty bold faced "lets sell something with hot chicks on it!"

TheShroud said:

I personally dont care either way, besides that i know one of the girls that may be a likely candidate, and she is excited about it, i agree that they shouldn't be trying to win players through sex appeal, but on the whole treating women as equals, i feel like its silly the girls doing the casting call know good and well what they are looking for. If they want to do this that is their choice. and lets face it, whether we like it or not, or whether it is right or wrong, mature or immature... it is what it is and sex sells, but this trend is losing its steam because now our society would rather see blood and guts more than hot chicks. Which may actually be even worse...(sorry I digress), if people didnt like it they wouldnt be in buisness, so yes it suxs but if the game is good it will stay around if the game suxs it wont matter who they have promoting it. And in a week from now will this even mattter anymore?

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And this, ladies and gents, is why women are such a small minority in our hobby. And they are; this isn't something that can be argued. The evidence is in: this stuff does have an effect. It's not harmless fun.

As for those who argue "it happens everywhere, so it doesn't matter that it happens here" - yes, it does happen everywhere. But we're an RPG forum, so we talk about RPGs. We can't do anything about Hollywood, but we can let our opinion be known about our tiny corner of the world at least. The fact that sexism exists elsewhere doesn't make it OK here in our little hobby. We wouldn't tolerate racism, and that certainly exists elsewhere. Someone else doing a bad thing doesn't make us doing the same bad thing magically OK.

If you're not a woman who feels intimidated or objectified in our hobby, you don't get to tell those women that it's OK. If you're male, you definitely don't.

Felon said:

Well, that's a gamer type they're going for. That doesn't mean that the existence of a variety of female gamers is being denied.


It's certainly cheesecake. That's the business they're in. But the great thing about the free market is that the dollars do all the talking, not indignant posts in discussion forums.

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How old are you? I have found that the older I get the less I count. I am a huge geek when it comes to fantasy and SF TV shows but that does not matter to the advertisers because I don't fit that coveted 19 to 29 male demographics.

Up until very recently make up companies did not bother to make make up for older woman we had to straggle to find something that was not full of glitz and glitter. That is slowly changing thanks to the huge amount of baby boomers with money to spend.

I know what it feels like to be made uncomfortable by a hobby that focuses on just the guys I lived it during the 70s and mid 80s. When you were lucky if you could find a mini that was not half nude or deal with the whole idea that female characters are not as good as the male characters or hey your the chick go take off your armor and go distract the guards.

I have been to many a gaming or SF con and over heard fat male fans lament on the lack of really hot chicks.

And that fact that a company that is claiming to have a lot of females in it and is diverse is not showing that but just want gorgeous hot gamers chicks is discouraging to me. Beauty is more than just cheesecake. Look at Frazetta art those woman may be submissive but they sure are not skinny with big boobs. They have full figures dare I say it in today standards they would be called fat.

I have a god daughter who is a beautiful healthy girl she is athletic competes in cross country running. She is 5 11 and weighs a 155 pounds of solid muscle. Yet she worries that she is fat because gasp she wears a size 12 and everyone knows that a size 12 is now considered a plus size. Marilyn Monroe wore a size 12.

At school she is picked on by the size 0 Queen Bees because she does not look like them. What females do to other females is far worse than what any guy does.

I think this kind of unhealthy competition is encouraged by society. We put little girls in pageants to compete in beauty. Girls has young as seven have died from anorexia. We pay thousands of dollars for treatments to conform to what is in style.

This company can advertise any way they want to but I can also choose not to buy their product.

Felon said:

It's certainly cheesecake. That's the business they're in. But the great thing about the free market is that the dollars do all the talking, not indignant posts in discussion forums.

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Dollars are not a moral barometer. Plenty of dollars are made through wrongdoing; in fact I'd argue that dollars can promote wrongdoing, rather than being proof of something being morally right. If dollars were the only thing that mattered, we'd have had no social progress since the middle ages. Sometimes - many times in history, and indeed in current mainstream news - things change because it's right, not because it's profitable. This is a good thing, and something we should support.

Morrus said:

And this, ladies and gents, is why women are such a small minority in our hobby. And they are; this isn't something that can be argued. The evidence is in: this stuff does have an effect. It's not harmless fun.

As for those who argue "it happens everywhere, so it doesn't matter that it happens here" - yes, it does happen everywhere. But we're an RPG forum, so we talk about RPGs. We can't do anything about Hollywood, but we can let our opinion be known about our tiny corner of the world at least. The fact that sexism exists elsewhere doesn't make it OK here in our little hobby. We wouldn't tolerate racism, and that certainly exists elsewhere. Someone else doing a bad thing doesn't make us doing the same bad thing magically OK.

If you're not a woman who feels intimidated or objectified in our hobby, you don't get to tell those women that it's OK. If you're male, you definitely don't.

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Really?? U being a male I guess you know what is right or wrong as well? ur opinion just as mine, was my own. You assume and u go off ur opinion or the opinion of a few others. what about those girls who are really looking forward to this? Are they wrong for liking the idea of getting to be apart of it? Are models wrong for liking how they look and for making a living off of modeling? just because u dont like it doesnt me it is wrong I dont think that it is the only thing that should make or break something, and because we are in an RPG forum and talking about RPGs lets focus on that whether it has girls on the cover of it or not if it sucks as an RPG it suxs, and it wont sell but if it actually has good content and is fun to play then the game will stick around and transend it's, as you put it "sexism" what is sexism to you? Because to me its seperating and belittling women, it is taking advantage of women? Because this company isnt taking advantage of anyone it is offering these women a chance to dress as and go around the country doing magazines, photo shoots and being apart of a "possible" new RPG. all the girls I met going for it did not feel taken advantage of. In fact my friend hasnt shut up about it... oh and her boyfriend is really big about sexism and people screwing her over and he supports this completely. So let me ask you who are you as a man to call it wrong? like it or not its what they are doing, like it or not the girls modeling wanted to do it. Why get upset about it? just try the game (or not) and then go heck no or wow this game wasnt bad. All RPGs have women dressed in images wearing small articles or tight fitting clothes, and women go to Anime, comic, and RPG cons as characters in these outfits... And this upsets you? I am no women but I am not going to bash something that i see people excited about possibly being apart of it due to my own personal feelings. and that is my feelings .

TheShroud said:

Really?? U being a male I guess you know what is right or wrong as well? ur opinion just as mine, was my own. You assume and u go off ur opinion or the opinion of a few others. what about those girls who are really looking forward to this? Are they wrong for liking the idea of getting to be apart of it? Are models wrong for liking how they look and for making a living off of modeling? just because u dont like it doesnt me it is wrong I dont think that it is the only thing that should make or break something, and because we are in an RPG forum and talking about RPGs lets focus on that whether it has girls on the cover of it or not if it sucks as an RPG it suxs, and it wont sell but if it actually has good content and is fun to play then the game will stick around and transend it's, as you put it "sexism" what is sexism to you? Because to me its seperating and belittling women, it is taking advantage of women? Because this company isnt taking advantage of anyone it is offering these women a chance to dress as and go around the country doing magazines, photo shoots and being apart of a "possible" new RPG. all the girls I met going for it did not feel taken advantage of. In fact my friend hasnt shut up about it... oh and her boyfriend is really big about sexism and people screwing her over and he supports this completely. So let me ask you who are you as a man to call it wrong? like it or not its what they are doing, like it or not the girls modeling wanted to do it. Why get upset about it? just try the game (or not) and then go heck no or wow this game wasnt bad. All RPGs have women dressed in images wearing small articles or tight fitting clothes, and women go to Anime, comic, and RPG cons as characters in these outfits... And this upsets you? I am no women but I am not going to bash something that i see people excited about possibly being apart of it due to my own personal feelings. and that is my feelings .

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I don't wish to be rude, but please take a moment to compose your thoughts and present them in a coherent fashion. With all due respect, I didn't follow that wall of text. Calm down a little; it's only a forum post.

As far as I can make out you said "it happens so it's OK"; plenty of things happen, but that doesn't make them OK. I'm aware that plenty of RPGs feature women in skimpy clothing; I also believe this is a contributing factor to the the small percentage of women in our hobby.

I believe that making the hobby inclusive and welcoming to both genders would be a good thing, and would enhance our hobby. While a 50/50 split is a long way off, we can certainly advocate towards it. And if it ever comes to be, that will be an awesome and welcome thing.

And from a purely economic point of view, increasing your audience by 40% can only be beneficial.

From your post, it appears that you have a tangential relationship with this company, and thus a clear conflict of interest. I hope that this isn't a case of members of the comany's forums storming over here to post rants, because that won't look good for the company in question. I certainly hope you're not representing the company in some way, because previous posts from company representatives have been reasoned and civil. Let's keep it that way, eh?

Morrus said:

And this, ladies and gents, is why women are such a small minority in our hobby.

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That post you quoted, one guy's opinion (which I couldn't really understand), is the reason women are such a small minority in the hobby?

Seriously?

Sorry, I sincerely don't get what you are trying to say. But if you're so sure you've got the whole truth about this issue, you should probably explain it better.

Consonant Dude said:

That post you quoted, one guy's opinion (which I couldn't really understand), is the reason women are such a small minority in the hobby?

Seriously?

Sorry, I sincerely don't get what you are trying to say. But if you're so sure you've got the whole truth about this issue, you should probably explain it better.

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Then I'll try to explain. There are two facets:

1) My opinion is, of course, my opinion. As others' are theirs. Everyone is welcome to express their opinion civilly. Sarcasm is not welcome here.

2) Those that do not feel that this is an issue are - in my opinion, which is far from unique - part of the problem. We're talking about a general culture which factually discourages female participation: our hobby is dominated by white, heterosexual males. The percentage of female members of our hobby is terrible low, and we hear time and time again both here on EN World and elsewhere as to why that is. Ignoring the opinion of 50% of the human population can never be a good thing; it wasn't in the early 20th century, and it isn't now. As a society, the West has made big strides towards equality (gender, racial, sexual preference, and more) in the the last century, but it still has some way to go. Anything we can do to encourage that progress - even something as insignificant as RPGs - can only be a good thing.

Sure, it's better than it was. But that doesn't mean it can't be better. And the day when the average gaming group actually represents the diversity of our population is going to be a good day.

Because if a large portion of the population is discouraged from participating, that is a bad thing. And quoting the exceptions of female cos-players and the like is quoting exceptions, not the majority.

We've heard from women in this very thread. We haven't heard from the many women who are not posting because they don't feel welcome. I want those women to feel comfortable both here and at the game table.

3) and the third of the incorrectly labelled two facets: the fact that people are actually willing to argue against gender equality surprises me. Who wouldn't want to encourage half the population to partipate in their hobby? When that half is telling us repeatedly over a period of years that they feel excluded, who wouldn't listen? Is it that vital to have cheesecake in their game books? Is that why they like the hobby? Can't they live without it for the sake of a vast number of people? If they must see pictures like that, they have the internet, after all; they can see any picture they like. Why not accept the criticism of half the population and address that criticism? I hoenstly can't think of a good reason not to.

But when it comes dowen to it, don't listen to me. Listen to the women who have posted in this thread. I wish there were more of them, but sadly women are very much a minority in this hobby. I wish those who ae not involved in the hobby could post here to explain why, but they won't - because they're not involved in this hobby and will never post on EN World.

Those women out there reading this thread but not posting - I encourage you to do so. I understand you may feel excluded or intimidated, but EN World's mod team is on your side. I know some of you out there have your blogs and such, and have read this thread; please post.

1ofthe9 said:

...I think it is very important that we clarify what we are actually looking for with this casting process.

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Okay, I'm listening...

1ofthe9 said:

We are in fact looking for our definition of a "gorgeous women." The type of "gorgeous women" we are exclusively looking for are strong, independent women, who break stereotypes and embody the true heart of a gamer. Why can't girl gamers be referred to as "gorgeous?!"

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Strong is good and quite sexy...independent is good and quite sexy...breaking stereotypes is very good.

So let's take a closer look at this. The press release says you're looking for "hot gamer chicks" and "girls" that are "vivacious" and "vixens"...hmmm...I thought you wanted strong, independent women...?

I'm not saying that strong, independent women can't also be "vivacious", "hot", or "vixen"-like...but those traits are far from requirements as to whether a women is considered strong and independent or not...nor are those requirements for a woman being considered "gorgeous".

1ofthe9 said:

I personally know many girl gamers who not only serve as GMs, but can also show everyone at the table a thing or two about gaming.

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As do I, and I think they are awesome. But how many of those strong, independent gaming women do you think are going to feel comfortable GM'ing or playing your role-playing game when it's filled with only your concept of strong, independent women? Especially since your definition is limited to "hot", "vivacious", and "vixen"-like...and as so many real women gamers don't fit your definition. In other words, only the "pretty" ones fit your definition...

That is unless you're only marketing to a very specific segment of gamers...namely young, single boys (and I intentionally used "boys")...?

1ofthe9 said:

We are only looking for women who actually enjoy playing or are exited about learning to play the same games that I, along with thousands of other women enjoy playing.

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A noble goal, except that it's not true. You're only interested in marketing your game to young, single boys. The relatively small amount of "girls" who you'll bring into the game directly through auditions, will be infinitesimal compared to the amount of young single boys you know you're directly marketing too...

1ofthe9 said:

The mainstream media, television, and film have dedicated many years to portraying gamers as unattractive introverted people, who do not enjoy interacting with others. A perfect example is Raj from the Big Bang Theory, who can't even speak to women unless he has a drink. Fable Streams is about breaking those stereotypes. We have a company created by gamers for gamers, dedicated to sparking a movement to break mainstream stereotypes associated with the gaming community.

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Great! But if breaking these stereotypes is one of your primary goals, then why aren't you also casting Men as well as Women, and one's that actually do break stereotypes, rather than just casting for stereotypical "hot gamer chicks"...? Where's the successful older Men and Women that play RPG's? Where's the Physicists, PR specialists, school teachers, soldiers, actors, musicians, lawyers, and others that also play RPG's...?

Oh yeah, I forgot...these groups are useless in marketing a game to young single boys.

You are completely contradicting yourself between your goals you just stated, and the language and manner in which you are marketing your game.

You are not doing anything to break stereotypes, but instead are reinforcing them. In this light, your saying that this is one of your goals is a completely fallacious declaration.

1ofthe9 said:

We look forward to hosting our fellow gamers at Q Lounge this Saturday for our casting event and launch party. As gamers, shouldn't we be allowed to have a night out at a club, enjoy great music and have a cocktail, two or maybe even three. For too long gamers have been hiding—no more! Gamers Assemble!

Anyone interested in knowing more about our launch party and casting event is invited to visit Video Contest 1 of the 9 Fates for Genesys RPG |

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Hosting fellow gamers and having a party sounds great...except that you feel you need to make it a "Ladies Night" in order to achieve your goals.

"Ladies Nights" have one purpose and one purpose only...get lots of women to come in for free drinks in order to attract even more young single boys as paying customers.

How is that having a party for fellow gamers...?

Either you're unable to see that your "Clarification" is simply a reinforcement of what people were already saying here...or your "Clarification" was nothing more than "Spin".

Morrus said:

Dollars are not a moral barometer. Plenty of dollars are made through wrongdoing; in fact I'd argue that dollars can promote wrongdoing, rather than being proof of something being morally right. If dollars were the only thing that mattered, we'd have had no social progress since the middle ages. Sometimes - many times in history, and indeed in current mainstream news - things change because it's right, not because it's profitable. This is a good thing, and something we should support.

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And there's been no small amount of wrongdoing committed by those who felt they were the appropriate "moral barometer" for everyone around them. Their convictions about what they think of as decent and proper trumped other people's right to self-determination. D&D, Harry Potter, and the video game industry have all been targeted by those who deemed themselves the arbiters of morality and good taste.

The principle of supply and demand offers the advantage of reflecting individual choices. If Fablestream's products are successful by virtue of profitability, then they have an audience. You do not approve of the content, and I can't say I have any use for use for it, but happily nobody is forced to purchase it. And even more encouraging, there's still plenty of other less prurient products out there for consumption.

Fablestream have presented their case, and they've asserted their intent is not to depict degradation. My sense of ethics tell me to give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. That is bothersome to some is to be expected, but tolerance is the default requirement of living in a society that values diversity and individual liberty.