Advanced Race Guide - Discussion

jkason · Jun 26, 2012

Qik said:
One thing I think we should do is rule against traditionally-evil races as being approved for PC use. So:
I also think the (new?) Strix fit this bill as well.

Been going back and forth on this one. The write-up in ARG is pretty thin, but the SRD has a more expanded take which points to Strix and their 'human hatred' as being more that of encroached-on native inhabitants than an inherent evil.

It's a Golarion-specific flavor, but I think something similar could work well for E'n. The Seithr need more than just the dwarves, anyway, and I'm kind of digging the idea of Strix Aeries high up where humans aren't comfortable, perhaps with a Strix/dwarven affinity, since the 'diggers' don't threaten their preferred territory.

Mind you, my enjoying the fluff doesn't change the fact that I'm not keen on an automatic 60 ft. fly speed at first level. If there isn't fluff-based objection to the race, I was thinking a good compromise would be to require PC Strix to take the Wing-Clipped racial alt.

Qik · Jun 28, 2012

I'm glad you pointed to the SRD entry on the Strix; I agree that it seems significantly less xenophobic than the paragraph in the ARG suggested to me. I like the idea of them fitting into the Seithr, and having an oddly-affable relationship with the dwarves given their mutually exclusive territories.

I'd prefer others to weigh in on their view of the power of a flight speed. I would certainly be against allowing them without the Wing-Clipped trait, but it seems like that, plus the less lucrative stat bonuses, might balance the scales. Again, I'd prefer to hear others' opinions on a flight speed, even one with poor maneuverability. Given that PF seems to avoid access to flight before level 5, it could still be a bit unbalancing for lower-level play, which is notable since LPF focuses so much on those lower levels (which may of course change in time).

Maidhc O Casain · Jun 28, 2012

I like the Strix, and agree that they'd be a good fit in the Seithr. Pseudo-allies of the dwarves, and with a strained (at best) relationship with the human barbarian tribes of those mountains.

I think the limitation of requiring the Clipped Wings trait will be sufficient, when coupled with the reduced stat adjustments (+0 balance). I'd also like to point out that not only is the fly speed reduced, it's a DC 30 fly check to fly upward . . . how often are they actually going to even get off the ground at lower levels?

They could gain the flight ability back at the cost of two feats by level 3, presuming they've put up the points to buy a 13 strength. I think this is sufficient "payment" to get the ability earlier than 5th level.

Qik · Jun 28, 2012

Those are good points, Mowgli.

jkason · Jun 28, 2012

Mowgli said:
I think the limitation of requiring the Clipped Wings trait will be sufficient, when coupled with the reduced stat adjustments (+0 balance). I'd also like to point out that not only is the fly speed reduced, it's a DC 30 fly check to fly upward . . . how often are they actually going to even get off the ground at lower levels?

They could gain the flight ability back at the cost of two feats by level 3, presuming they've put up the points to buy a 13 strength. I think this is sufficient "payment" to get the ability earlier than 5th level.

This was essentially where my head was on it. Until 3rd level, Strix 'flight' is really more of a glorified glide / feather fall, which is far more circumstantial. And 3rd level flight comes at a pretty steep cost. Others' mileage may vary, of course.

sunshadow21 · Jun 28, 2012

On the flight speed, poor maneuverability is a pretty significant drawback. Considering it would take feats to get anything better, it's a fair trade. Perhaps add a feat (or possibly a series of feats) of our own with a requirement of a higher level that would allow them access to the full flight speed and maneuverability of the normal race. It would still cost a feat and we could control the level that it's available, so it could be balanced. They do seem like an interesting race, and could definitely be fun to play, especially if we developed some kind of connection to the tengu as well; could be good, could be bad, could be something in between, but as similar races, they could easily have interacted in the past, and the interaction would likely be fairly memorable to both.

Maidhc O Casain · Jun 28, 2012

sunshadow21 said:
Perhaps add a feat (or possibly a series of feats) of our own with a requirement of a higher level that would allow them access to the full flight speed and maneuverability of the normal race. It would still cost a feat and we could control the level that it's available, so it could be balanced.

See, and I think the existing requirements to get to full racial flight and maneuverability are well balanced already, especially when combined with the reduced attribute bonuses. In order to get to their full flight abilities before 5th level, a Strix character will have to devote their first level feat to Skill Focus (Fly) - zero benefit to a first (or really even to a second level character) - and three attribute buy points to STR. Those attribute points are gonna be precious to a Strix character because they start out behind the curve on attirbutes. Then their third level feat has to go to Stretched Wings. If they don't do it that way, it'll be at least 5th level before they get full flight anyway.

sunshadow21 said:
They do seem like an interesting race, and could definitely be fun to play, especially if we developed some kind of connection to the tengu as well; could be good, could be bad, could be something in between, but as similar races, they could easily have interacted in the past, and the interaction would likely be fairly memorable to both.

I hadn't thought about their relations with the Tengu, but that could also be a nice well of fluff! Even though the tengu are "bird-like," far fewer of them will actually be able to fly than will the Strix. Could lead to a little racial tension. Or, given the right history, the Strix could feel protective of the Tengu; possibly even have a desire to help the Tengu regain their ability to fly.

sunshadow21 · Jun 28, 2012

Mowgli said:
See, and I think the existing requirements to get to full racial flight and maneuverability are well balanced already, especially when combined with the reduced attribute bonuses. In order to get to their full flight abilities before 5th level, a Strix character will have to devote their first level feat to Skill Focus (Fly) - zero benefit to a first (or really even to a second level character) - and three attribute buy points to STR. Those attribute points are gonna be precious to a Strix character because they start out behind the curve on attirbutes. Then their third level feat has to go to Stretched Wings. If they don't do it that way, it'll be at least 5th level before they get full flight anyway.

I haven't fully read up on them, so I don't know what they already have in place to deal with that. If they already have something, even better than us having to come up with it on our own.

sunshadow21 · Jun 28, 2012

Mowgli said:
I hadn't thought about their relations with the Tengu, but that could also be a nice well of fluff! Even though the tengu are "bird-like," far fewer of them will actually be able to fly than will the Strix. Could lead to a little racial tension. Or, given the right history, the Strix could feel protective of the Tengu; possibly even have a desire to help the Tengu regain their ability to fly.

It could be both. The Strix feel they are being helpful and protective, while the tengu don't feel they need protecting, and are a bit annoyed by the unwanted "help" for the most part.

Maidhc O Casain · Jun 28, 2012

sunshadow21 said:
It could be both. The Strix feel they are being helpful and protective, while the tengu don't feel they need protecting, and are a bit annoyed by the unwanted "help" for the most part.

Yes! I like this!