Advanced Race Guide - Discussion

Maidhc O Casain · Oct 12, 2012

Umbriere Moonwhisper said:
i really have no problems with any of the advanced races, as long as they don't come from chapter 4.

i don't see an issue with strongtail. a medium creature with a 15 foot land speed is still slower than a darn halfling. medium and heavy armor slows it down to only 10. they are still having to double move to do what most other races of the same size can do in a single move.

in fact, i would make strongtail a requirement for merfolk. spending 6 turns to close up to a foe the human can reach in one is a pretty stupid drawback.

not every merfolk should be forced to be a barbarian, travel domain cleric, or metal/flames oracle. 15 ft move before armor is enough of a penalty. considering most PCs will have 30. that can be a major difference.

i wouldn't even force strix to take clipped wings, flight isn't really any more powerful than walking. unless you are outdoors on the open plains. most dungeons have low ceilings to make flight impractical, and even if you could bypass traps with flight, all you are doing is saving yourself a handful of hit points and happy stick charges. you pay a price in lower attributes and in having less overall racial powers to work with.

The merfolk issue has been done and redone here. They were finally allowed as a PC race, but only because of their poor movement. Without that limitation, they're ridiculously overpowered compared to the other playable races (a net +6 to ability scores compared to the +2 other races get, +2 Natural Armor, Swim speed and the ability to breath underwater, and their only drawback is their slow land speed).

I've got mixed feelings about the Strix's clipped wings trait - there are a lot of different adventure types in LPF, and it wouldn't be too difficult to pick and choose those where the ability to fly would be a significant advantage. But as you say, the Strix is pretty well limited in other ways (net +0 to ability scores, limited racial powers other than flight) to compensate.

DalkonCledwin · Oct 13, 2012

Umbriere Moonwhisper said:
in fact, i would make strongtail a requirement for merfolk. spending 6 turns to close up to a foe the human can reach in one is a pretty stupid drawback.

If Strongtail were a requirement or even simply allowed, I could do the following with a Strongtail Merfolk:

Level 1 Oracle (Flame) with the Cinder Dance revelation suddenly Strongtail Mermaid has a movement speed of 25 feet per round.

and Level 1 Barbarian with the Fast Movement Job ability, suddenly the Oracle/Barbarian Strongtail Merfolk has a movement speed of 35 feet per round while not wearing heavy armor.

At any point take the Fleet Feat and gain a 40 foot per round movement speed so long as you don't carry a medium or heavy load.

This 40 foot per round movement speed Mermaid is what I think the Judges are worried about. That combined with all their other traits, makes the Merfolk perhaps the most powerful race in the game. As it is, the most speed on a merfolk I can hope for is 30 feet, thats still alot, but it also requires a bit of investment either way.

EDIT: Oh, and I am also pretty sure those movement speed buffs also apply to the Mermaid's swim speed. So in effect we would have a mermaid capable of moving faster in the water than a typical mermaid, and one which is capable of moving faster on land than the typical Elf, Human, Half-Elf or Half-Orc...

EDIT2: I just double checked. Barbarian's fast movement is the only one of the three that indicates land speed. The other two indicate "base speed" so they could theoretically apply to both a mermaid's swim and land speed as they both count as base speeds for a mermaid, I think. Which if true, would mean that a Stouttail Merfolk with 1 level of Flame Oracle and the Cinder Dance Revelation, as well as the Fleet feat, and 1 level of Barbarian would have the equivalent of a land speed of 40 feet, and a swim speed of 45 feet. Which is only slightly worse in water than an average merfolk, and is significantly better on land than most merfolk. Additionally it means that your typical merfolk with the same abilities (not including the Stouttail trait) would have a land movement speed of 30 feet, and a swim movement rate of 65 feet. I believe we do have a merfolk in the game who has all of these, with the exception of Stouttail & a Barbarian level, which means her movement rate should be 20 feet on land, and 65 feet in the water, if I am getting my math correct.

Satin Knights · Oct 13, 2012

Ah, slowpokes. Arianna, mermaid cleric of the stormlord Tanager, Summoner of the battle suit Teq Oola, was moving at a brisk 70' per round in her last fight. She can only unleash the lightning speed of the oncoming storm twice a day, but so far, that has been more than enough.

Mermaid, Synthesist to get feet (30 land) +10' travel domain + 2 hour Longstrider for +10' or Haste for another +30' for short durations. Double checking, Longstrider and Haste are both enhancements, so unfortunately, they don't stack.

If a mermaid can out sprint a horse with her own buffs, she doesn't need much more speed.