Tactical Narrative Combat Modules in D&D Next - Page 5
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  1. #41
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    That's an interesting analysis, @Mustrum_Ridcully. Tactic 3 is obviously Iron Heroes, and you're right that the problem with that is that by the time you've gained tokens enough to do something with them, using them isn't all that spectacular or interesting. It often made more sense just to attack and kill something than to study it long enough to build up tokens, because the risk was that it would die and you'd just lose the tokens. Of course, my DM at the time had houserules to prevent that, but it was a large enough problem to warrant such examination.

    Of the four methods you list, I prefer method 2 as an idea, but I've yet to see it implemented well in a game I've played. Edit: Well, with the exception of backstab or sneak attack or skirmish. Pretty much limited to rogues and alternate rogues, really.
    Last edited by Mercutio01; Monday, 2nd July, 2012 at 02:12 PM.

  2. #42
    What about combining 3 & 4? You start with some tokens and acquire more by performing specific actions.

    BTW I liked this "token" system of Mearls (original author of Iron Heroes) much more than his Iron Might "roll with a penalty to the attack" system that seems to come back in 5e.

  3. #43
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    I find it hard to come up with good, descriptive conditions for variant 2, really, since it requires to be mostly gridless and it must be fairly generic enough to work in most situations.

    Maybe we could have something like different types of advantage?

    • Insight Advantage:
      You have observed something your enemy hasn't noticed, or you feinted him, and can exploit this.
    • Positional Advantage:
      The enemy is in a worse position then you are - prone, flanked, backed to a obstacle.
    • Morale Advantage:
      You have superior morale, the enemy has been intimidated or his resolve was otherwise shaken, or you were inspired by something.

    They all do the same basic thing - you have advantage. But depending on which descriptor applies to your advantage, you can use different abilities.



    If you have the requisite advantage, you can forego your second attack roll from advantage and apply the efecct.
    Tier 1 Maneuver (require 1 type of advantage each)


    • Knockdown (any advantage): The target is knocked prone on a hit.
    • Feint (any advantage): You or one ally gains insight advantage against the enemy.
    • Backstab (Positional Advantage): You inflict 2d6 extra damage on a hit
    • Smite (Positional or Insight): The target grants morale advantage to you until your next action.

    Tier 2 Maneuver (require 2 types of advantage each)

    • Brutal Strike (positional and morale advantage): The target is knocked prone and takes 2d6 extra damage on a hit.
    • Bleeding Cut (positional and insight advantage): The target suffers a bleeding wound on a hit, taking 5 points of damage each turn until it receives healing. A Constitution Save or Heal Check (requiring an action) can end this effect.
    • Twin Strike (positional and insight advantage): Make a second attack against another target in reach.
    • Riposte (positional and insight advantage): If the target attacks you on its next turn, you can make an attack as reaction. If your attack hits, the enemies attack automatically misses.

    Tier 3 Maneuver (require all types of advantage each)

    • Executioner's Strike: If the attack hits, the target must make a Consitution Save or die. If it succeeds the save, you inflict extra damage equal to twice your level.
    • Whirldwind Strike: Also make an attack against every other enemy in reach. Each time you hit, you can also move (this counts as your total movement in the round.).



    What about combining 3 & 4? You start with some tokens and acquire more by performing specific actions.

    BTW I liked this "token" system of Mearls (original author of Iron Heroes) much more than his Iron Might "roll with a penalty to the attack" system that seems to come back in 5e.
    This mixed appraoch is also a bit like the Book of Nine Swords concept, where every classes can recover its abilities. I think the simplest/best way is to star twith a full pool of token in this case, so you don't have anyone trying to "cheat" by making his pool full with a bag of rats and similar tricks (and not always are the tricks as stupid as the bag of rats trick, sometimes you genuinely wonder why you shouldn't be able to "keep" tokens around.)
    Last edited by Mustrum_Ridcully; Monday, 2nd July, 2012 at 04:18 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustrum_Ridcully View Post
    you can forego your second attack roll from advantage and apply the efecct
    That by itself is an interesting idea. Probably too easy/breakable, but just the idea that you give up your second roll to try to apply an effect. So you have advantage versus an orc. You'd have to announce giving up your second roll before you roll, obviously, but if you're successful with your attack you could forgo the damage to deliver knockback or trip.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustrum_Ridcully View Post
    I find it hard to come up with good, descriptive conditions for variant 2, really, since it requires to be mostly gridless and it must be fairly generic enough to work in most situations.

    Maybe we could have something like different types of advantage?
    Nice work, I like what you've got there.

    One issue with this method: it can reveal how reliant D&D combat is on dissociated mechanics. Once you start to get vivid descriptions of combat, it's not too hard to wonder why a dagger to the face only does 1d4 damage, what HP actually represent, etc. At that point you either refer only to the mechanics ("I try for Positional Advantage") or head down the rabbit hole. (I went down the rabbit hole.)

    Though I think that's a minor issue for most people and won't often come up. So ignore me.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercutio01 View Post
    That by itself is an interesting idea. Probably too easy/breakable, but just the idea that you give up your second roll to try to apply an effect. So you have advantage versus an orc. You'd have to announce giving up your second roll before you roll, obviously, but if you're successful with your attack you could forgo the damage to deliver knockback or trip.
    It's probably to early to tell right now how easy or difficult it will be in the long term to gain advantage, and how much better or worse the maneuvers are to sacrifice the extra roll. I personally am fond of the idea, but that doesn't mean it will work. But it is basically a form of "take a penalty to your attack" - except you can only take the penalty if you have a certain bonus.

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