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Monday, 2nd July, 2012, 03:48 PM #131
Superhero (Lvl 15)
And this is a prodocut of choice, product of the most important choice a player makes: what class to play.
Lets also keep in mind, in most campaigna, the Gm is expected to consider the strengths and weaknesses of different party members. So more likely you will have one or two undead encounters but not the five (or there would be things thrown in there for the rogue to do at various stages----rogue might not be good at fighting undead, but he is pretty darn good at breaking into the vampire's lair and clearing traps). Personally that one five encounter game wouldn't bother me, but I realize in most campaigns that prefer this style the five encounters with undead wouldn't occur.
Also, in my mind, this player isn't doing nothing this entire time. He is still in the fight, just playing a minor support role more than anything else. A lot of people can handle that just fine for portions of a game or campaign because over the long haul it balances out.
I want it to matter which monsters the gm throws at me. If any given encounter is going to assure me the same amount of input and shine time, to me that is dull.
Monday, 2nd July, 2012, 04:12 PM #132
Myrmidon (Lvl 10)
Originally Posted by Neonchameleon
Add in the 3.5 Polymorph spells - that will unbalance things in a hurry. Throw in Divine Metamagic and Persistent Spell. Again unbalance in a hurry.
We took the option of inherent bonuses; all items of level 1-5 fade in power within 1-5 years; items above 5th level are all unique (1 in existence, avoids the stoopid spamming of magical items); Items above 5th level still fade, but in order to make them permanent the Enchanter must sacrifice a surge permanently (reflects the cost);...etc
These could all be options/add-ons modules.
You could do the same with Magic or specifically the Polymorph and Persistence spells - introduce costs or power them down or go drastic and say that they simply dont exist.
I'm good either way, truthfully. I just believe that if you want to attract the old schoolers - WotC should start with something familiar, keeping some of the quirks of the past and let the modules balance it all out for the Fourthers.
Last edited by Sadras; Monday, 2nd July, 2012 at 04:20 PM.
Monday, 2nd July, 2012, 04:13 PM #133
Grandmaster of Flowers (Lvl 18)
Personally, I think a lot of problems and arguments will be lowered once we get an example of a module.
I think the whole issue will be best solved like with an idea I mentioned back when D&D Next was announces.
Have edition packets that group modules and rules that simulate the various edition.
Core + "these modules" = AD&D
Core + "this and that module" = 3E
Core + "those modules" = 4E
The issue at that part is making a core that works and can be plugged into.
And making edition modules that fans of the edition actually want and not what you think they want.
Monday, 2nd July, 2012, 04:21 PM #134
Scout (Lvl 6)
As a 4e DM I don't even prepare encounters anymore. I just let the story flow and create encounters on the fly when they happen. Knowing more or less the difficulty of the encounter, while it enfolds I already start to plan the next steps.
3e and now D&D next are a more capricious beast in my experience. They are more swingy and as a DM I don't really get a gut feeling about how an encounter will go before I actually see the rolls, so I have less time to plan the next steps.
Having not so much time out-of-game to create my adventures I heavily improvise during play and getting some more time to think is really important for me. DM with more time may plan far more or go for a sandbox game (I discussed this with Emerikol on WotC's board) and then will not get this benefit.
Monday, 2nd July, 2012, 04:38 PM #135
Spellbinder (Lvl 16)
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As someone who favors 3e but plays and enjoys 4e, I support the message of the OP, but it's not enough.
Looked at only as "they need to focus on these also" for4e players, I agree.
5e also needs to do other things (cast resurrection on sacred cows) killed in 4e for one.
While this isn't the thread for those considerations, I think it important to remember that those cows might at times be at odds with the goals of the op...and a balance between those and those of the op would be ideal...perhaps accomplished with modularity.
5e needs all of the OP's items...but it needs more too.
Monday, 2nd July, 2012, 04:50 PM #136
Enchanter (Lvl 12)
Monday, 2nd July, 2012, 04:52 PM #137
Enchanter (Lvl 12)
Monday, 2nd July, 2012, 04:55 PM #138
Grandfather of Assassins (Lvl 19)
So no I don't agree that from a believablilty perspective blocking sneak attack makes sense. It makes less than no sense to claim that a skeleton has no joints. Or a Golem has no wrists or articulated joints. For bonus marks, explain to me why precision damage wouldn't be extremely useful against a clockwork soldier. Or why a crystaline construct can't be shattered by a lucky critical hit. Or a limb won't break off a walking tree from a lucky hit.
Immunities destroy fluff every bit as much as they support it. And the rogue's Sneak Attack is a particularly extreme example of why.
Does WotC want to include them in this edition? Must WotC make a round wheel to include them or would they come with an imperfect, yet familiar and polished wheel?
It's easier to add, an extra bit onto those spells which would greatly increase the risk/cost for using such magic.
Monday, 2nd July, 2012, 04:59 PM #139
Scout (Lvl 6)
Monday, 2nd July, 2012, 05:03 PM #140
Scout (Lvl 6)
Right now I am playing (in 3.x/Pathfinder) a gestalt Monk/Sorcerer. Every sorcerer spell is refluffed as a superch'i ability (Shu-do-ken fireball FTW). The character is a wandering monastic priest, who happens to use martial arts and ch'i - she never refers to herself as a Monk or sorcerer.
When first tried 4E, I built a monk with trading a ranger ability for AC to replace armor, and a weapon called "martial arts" for 1d8. Then used the ranger build. (this is a week or two after the first PH came out). Worked fairly well.
One of the things I really liked about 4E was the ability to refluff (or in HERO terms define the special effects of the mechanic).
Last edited by Lord Mhoram; Monday, 2nd July, 2012 at 05:07 PM.
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