Help me build a Dwarven scout

Legildur · Dec 5, 2002

My gaming group are cave dwellers - that is we really take the 'Dungeon' part of D&D literally and barely ever see the light of day. Dungeon crawling occupies the bulk of our gaming.

Anyway, no one else in my group really understands the tactics for Rogues in this environment and so I get frustrated watching our current elven rogue dither and waste opportunities - particularly in combat situations.

Personally, my Rogues tend to be risk takers and quite often are the eyes and ears of the party around 60 ft forward of the main group. Consequently I want build a dwarven scout (not necessarily only a Rogue) to fulfill this role.

Why a dwarf? Only a penalty to Charisma on creation, good hit points, dark vision, stone cunning, and good saves. Points against? Speed and... that's all I can think of. Good makings for a scout if ever I saw one.

I'm thinking about making him a Fighter/Rogue archer that packs a punch by taking some levels in Deepwood Sniper and Order of the Bow initiate and using a mighty composite long bow. And I know elves make better archers and scouts, but the darkvision, save bonuses, and stonecunning are too cool for school in this environment and role.

Rolled stats (and my placings so far) are:

18 (Str)
18 (Dex)
14 (16 Con)
14 (Wis)
10 (Int)
9 (7 Cha)

Build him up to say 10th level or there abouts with standard gold.

I was looking at Ftr4/Rog3/DS2/OOB1 but happy to see suggestions. Skills would be focussed on stealth etc That is, don't bother with Open Locks, Disable Device etc as that will be someone elses problem. Also need Spot, Listen, and Search (for the stone cunning).

Likely equipment would be magical mithral chain shirt, +1 shocking bow of true strike (from S&F - can this character use one or does it need spell completion ability as per wands?), quiver of ehlonna, bracers of archery, gloves of dexterity (and maybe stack one of these with glove of storing to protect the bow from Sunder), boots of elvenkind, cloak of elven kind, eyes of the eagle. Anything else?

Hopefully I can lean on a friendly spell caster for a Greater Magic Weapon each day on 50 arrows.

Feats would probably be Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Far Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus, Specialisation and Improved Critical (composite long bow), and that feat from S&F that reduces attack penalties from cover.

Once again, happy to see suggestions.

Oh yeah, and I'm stuck with the PHB and the standard class based splat books from WotC.

Thanks in advance.

darkbard · Dec 5, 2002

i would go with rogue 7/ranger 1/dungeon delver 2 [from song & silence]. blindsight and danger sense, are great features for a scout, and this guy could pump all his ranger skill points into wilderness lore for use with track. you'd have to take alertness and blind-fight as feats and spend skill points on disable device and open lock, so this is a different character concept than what you're proposing. but, then again, these aren't bad skills for a scout to have. he'd be one stealthy and aware dude, with nasty sneak attacks but not quite the uber-bowman you've depicted.

bret · Dec 5, 2002

I would take Barbarian instead of Fighter so that your Uncanny Dodge continues to improve. That way, you don't have to worry about getting flanked by any rogues you should have to deal with. The other big advantage is the bonus movement rate.

Failing that, how about a straight rogue? That way you can get one of the rogue special feats.

As for stats, I would swap Str and Con. Doing damage is someone elses responsibility, you are depending on Sneak Attack for your damage. It also helps with the Fortitude save, which you really need if you are getting into melee situations.

I would also seriously consider the impact that the Charisma penalty will have on your Use Magic Device skill. At 10 ranks in UMD, you could use a lot of magical devices without worrying about backlash.

Darklone · Dec 5, 2002

Sigh ... Another barbarian dwarf with longbow...

3rd edition, sometimes I hate you.

Ok. I agree with bret about swapping Con and Str. Hitpoints are very important for you, causing damage... check the relevant archer threads.

OTOH you could go for a dwarven platemail or perhaps elven chainmail if your move silently skill is high enough to sneak with it and dump the dex for a high con and str

You'll still hit fine with a bow (sob, dwarven archers).

Magic items: Fine, you seem to have a lot of gold. Don't forget slippers of spiderclimb! And perhaps something to fly, some potions of invisibility and so on.

Edit: Another idea with more style for close quarters ranged combat in dungeons. Get some returning throwing axes with flaming or shocking enchantment. Plus quickdraw, the usual one level as ranger and throw three axes per round with full strength bonus at level 2. Don't forget quickdraw.

Or dwarven throwing hammers. That way you don't rely on spellcasters for the GMW all the time thanks to the returning. And besides... dwarves with bows

Darklone · Dec 5, 2002

Question: Does your DM allow you to hide the bow in gloves of storing after retrieving it in the same round and shooting?

Legildur · Dec 5, 2002

I don't know whether storing and retrieving items is a MEA, standard or free action? What's the consensus?

And Darklone, about dwarven archers, get over it ;-)

I guess that I'm a bit focussed on damage output as his main role will be combat focussed. The scouting role is secondary. There should be a straight Rogue to handle the traps etc.

Bbr is good idea, except I want the feats - but I'll look at it.

Thanks

AuraSeer · Dec 5, 2002

Bow, schmow. Take EWP: Dwarven Waraxe, and specialize with it. A sneak attack with that sucker is gonna sting.

Roland Delacroix · Dec 6, 2002

AuraSeer said:
Bow, schmow. Take EWP: Dwarven Waraxe, and specialize with it. A sneak attack with that sucker is gonna sting.

Hmmm spend a feat for a 1 point difference in damage output compared to a regular axe........no thanks

If you wanna be an archer scout i'd go with a Ranger, prefferable Monte Cooks version. Actually, I wouldn't go as an archer at all. As a scout you will likely be starting combat in the thick of things. This means melee will hapen to you more often than ranged, and you will NOT avoid it with your massive 20' movement. Why not announce your presence with the Raging sneak attack a Barbarian/Rogue grants you?

Barbarian levels will also increase you speed, making you sneak at a rapid 15' move instead of only 10'.

Darklone · Dec 6, 2002

Dwarves with bows

*sigh*

Hehehe.

Yeah, Barbarian/rogues rock. Uncanny dodge improves, and they can rather go for a game of "Ok, we both hit each other, let's see who can do this longer". I just don't like to see a dwarf go that route. But alas... those were the times.

Dwarven waraxes ... sigh. Yet another matter of style that is dished with a damage output argument...

If you wanna do damage, get two animated heavy crossbows as pets

As for matters of style... Fighter/Rogue fits better to a dwarf and you won't do less damage. Rather the opposite. And you can stay ftr4 and go for more rogue levels. (Except if you houseruled multiclassing)

Ah well. If you would like to be archer, you don't need the barbarian levels... fighter levels would be better that way (especially if you aim for PrClasses and all those cute feats).

Hmm. Powergaming? Go cleric/rogue.