Burned Circle - OOC Thread
- Thread starter ThirdWizard
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ThirdWizard
First Post
I'd be happy to do a walkthrough of a declaration for you guys. I know it can be difficult to really sink your teeth into it, because it works pretty much counter to how most of us are used to playing (me included). We'll start with Bluedevil's suggestion, wanting to look around (Investigation) to find a window to the basement.
Unfortunately for Bluedevil, Atlanta homes don't really have basements. If it's on a hill, it might have one of those half-basement/half exposed areas, but as described this place will unfortunately not have one. Don't blame me. Blame the local builders! So, the declaration would have to be tweaked. You'll have to settle for a window to the main house. I think that means I'll call for some Stealth checks, but we'll get to that later.
Okay, for the Investigation roll. I'll go ahead and do that myself. ENWorld is nice enough to give us some FATE dice, so we can use those. I put some notes on the wiki about die rolling for some easy referencing.
Looking over my notes on Sandra, I determine that a roll of Fair means that Malcom will find an unlocked window. So now I'll go ahead and post this post up, and do the die roll from there.
EDIT:
So, I rolled, and I totally flubbed that die roll. I am a terrible terrible die roller. Seriously, three "-" is just crazy bad. So as to not be sabotaging you guys with my bad luck, I'll let Bluedevil reroll that himself, then we'll move on with the declaration, assuming his roll isn't just as terrible, which might just be the case!
Unfortunately for Bluedevil, Atlanta homes don't really have basements. If it's on a hill, it might have one of those half-basement/half exposed areas, but as described this place will unfortunately not have one. Don't blame me. Blame the local builders! So, the declaration would have to be tweaked. You'll have to settle for a window to the main house. I think that means I'll call for some Stealth checks, but we'll get to that later.
Okay, for the Investigation roll. I'll go ahead and do that myself. ENWorld is nice enough to give us some FATE dice, so we can use those. I put some notes on the wiki about die rolling for some easy referencing.
Looking over my notes on Sandra, I determine that a roll of Fair means that Malcom will find an unlocked window. So now I'll go ahead and post this post up, and do the die roll from there.
EDIT:
So, I rolled, and I totally flubbed that die roll. I am a terrible terrible die roller. Seriously, three "-" is just crazy bad. So as to not be sabotaging you guys with my bad luck, I'll let Bluedevil reroll that himself, then we'll move on with the declaration, assuming his roll isn't just as terrible, which might just be the case!
Last edited:
Thanks for doing this! And thanks for the wiki link.
Just to make sure I'm comprehending straight:
1) You decide what you're trying to do, and therefore what skill will be used to accomplish it.
In this case, we decide we're finding an unlocked window. For this we use the 'find inobvious stuff' skill, Investigate.
2) Roll thy dice.
Standard roll is 4 of the dice, modified by your chosen skill's position on the ladder according to that handy-dandy chart. The dice roll will add or subtract from that modification based on how well you roll.
3) ...
The GM decides if the final result of the roll equals a success.
4) PROFIT.
You GM lets you know what your attempt resulted in...utter triumph, or bitter defeat.
Is that more or less how this goes?
Just to make sure I'm comprehending straight:
1) You decide what you're trying to do, and therefore what skill will be used to accomplish it.
In this case, we decide we're finding an unlocked window. For this we use the 'find inobvious stuff' skill, Investigate.
2) Roll thy dice.
Standard roll is 4 of the dice, modified by your chosen skill's position on the ladder according to that handy-dandy chart. The dice roll will add or subtract from that modification based on how well you roll.
3) ...
The GM decides if the final result of the roll equals a success.
4) PROFIT.
You GM lets you know what your attempt resulted in...utter triumph, or bitter defeat.
Is that more or less how this goes?
Last edited:
ThirdWizard
First Post
That's pretty much it. I'd probably add 4b) If the roll failed, you can spend a FATE point to make that failure a success.
If the roll for the window doesn't work, you could also try something like "Sandra keeps a spare key hidden somewhere by the back door" if you don't want to spend your few FATE points. Those things are precious.
Here are some examples declarations:
These should always make sense.
Declarations are a player's chance to say "this is how the world is" and those declarations should be based on what you've seen so far in the game and what you know about the world. They're a chance for good fortune in a sea of troubles.
If the roll for the window doesn't work, you could also try something like "Sandra keeps a spare key hidden somewhere by the back door" if you don't want to spend your few FATE points. Those things are precious.
Here are some examples declarations:
- The elevator in an apartment complex is out of order.
- You have a flashlight on you.
- You have silver bullets on you.
- The streetlights come on at just the right moment.
- The alley has loose bricks in the walls.
These should always make sense.
- If you're in a nice apartment building, the elevators probably won't be out. This makes sense in an old run down part of town, though.
- If you were captured and naked, you won't be carrying anything. If you succeed, it won't be a big Maglight, it would be a small keychain flashlight or the like.
- If you don't use guns, it makes no sense to have silver bullets. It has to be a reasonable thing that you and the other players would expect to be true.
- If its daytime, the street lights aren't going to suddenly turn on. You aren't making things happen: declarations are co-operative storytelling, not magic.
- A nice neighborhood probably won't be falling apart, however the roll would probably just go up instead of denying this outright as it is still within reason to happen.
Declarations are a player's chance to say "this is how the world is" and those declarations should be based on what you've seen so far in the game and what you know about the world. They're a chance for good fortune in a sea of troubles.
ThirdWizard
First Post
Declarations are all states of existence. They should never be your character doing something. Your character might find or have something because of the declaration, but the essence of the declaration is that you are declaring something about the world that we (including the GM) weren't aware of previously.
Sometimes you just pick something that fits the situation best and hope everyone agrees. If no one has a better skill, you pick an imperfect solution and keep moving. For the key being under the doormat, I'd go with something like Burglary or Investigation. Both of those could be seen "find a way to get into a building" related skills.
It's really easy for something like "You have silver bullets on you." In that case, I'd call for guns. Or if the declaration was "This guy left his keys in the car" I'd call for a Drive skill. Those are great.
But, take the example of "The streetlights come on at just the right moment." For this, I'll add a context. Say you're being chased by dark-loving fae who hate the light just as dusk is settling in. You're trying to get away and they're trying to kill you. This would be a really good time for those street lights to come on to either drive them away or slow them down (or maybe enact a Catch) so that you can fight them.
In a case like this it doesn't really fits a skill. A player could argue anything from Alertness to Conviction to Scholarship and there's really no "right" answer. Part of playing with declarations is accepting that sometimes you aren't going to have a perfect fit and that's okay.
Sometimes you just pick something that fits the situation best and hope everyone agrees. If no one has a better skill, you pick an imperfect solution and keep moving. For the key being under the doormat, I'd go with something like Burglary or Investigation. Both of those could be seen "find a way to get into a building" related skills.
It's really easy for something like "You have silver bullets on you." In that case, I'd call for guns. Or if the declaration was "This guy left his keys in the car" I'd call for a Drive skill. Those are great.
But, take the example of "The streetlights come on at just the right moment." For this, I'll add a context. Say you're being chased by dark-loving fae who hate the light just as dusk is settling in. You're trying to get away and they're trying to kill you. This would be a really good time for those street lights to come on to either drive them away or slow them down (or maybe enact a Catch) so that you can fight them.
In a case like this it doesn't really fits a skill. A player could argue anything from Alertness to Conviction to Scholarship and there's really no "right" answer. Part of playing with declarations is accepting that sometimes you aren't going to have a perfect fit and that's okay.
Hragh...
I have no problem with a system of narrative collaboration, but it seems weird and kludgy to imperfectly wed it to the skill system then.
It seems to me that a better way to do it would be for players to use FATE points to create Declarations, and for the skill resolution system to be totally separate.
So, for example, in this case we want to get in unnoticed.
We could make Investigation rolls to see if we find a way...or verify that there is no way if that's the case...or we could do Burglery to make a way. Or, one of us could spend a FATE point and say, "Hey! There's a key under the mat! yay!"
Similarly, for the 'unnoticed' part we could make Stealth rolls, or one or both of us could spend FATE points on that, like "Yay, a jet flies overhead just at that second, covering the noise of breaking glass!"
And so on.
Having a Declaration -also- be a skill roll seems...kind of yucky to my sensibilities. The two things are very different, and don't really dovetail well. Don't you think?
I have no problem with a system of narrative collaboration, but it seems weird and kludgy to imperfectly wed it to the skill system then.
It seems to me that a better way to do it would be for players to use FATE points to create Declarations, and for the skill resolution system to be totally separate.
So, for example, in this case we want to get in unnoticed.
We could make Investigation rolls to see if we find a way...or verify that there is no way if that's the case...or we could do Burglery to make a way. Or, one of us could spend a FATE point and say, "Hey! There's a key under the mat! yay!"
Similarly, for the 'unnoticed' part we could make Stealth rolls, or one or both of us could spend FATE points on that, like "Yay, a jet flies overhead just at that second, covering the noise of breaking glass!"
And so on.
Having a Declaration -also- be a skill roll seems...kind of yucky to my sensibilities. The two things are very different, and don't really dovetail well. Don't you think?
ThirdWizard
First Post
I agree that it is an imperfect system. It does look like the skills were designed without Declarations in mind and then of attached later on. I can see why they didn't make it a pure FATE use, though, because FATE is also doing so many other things. And for any really powerful uses of declarations you're going to use FATE anyway - for example if you want an enemy's gun to jam you would have to use a FATE point because the roll for such a thing would be astronomical.
Most of the time people are so starved for FATE points that they would rather give up on, for example, getting into the house than spend a precious FATE. At least, that's how my players react to that kind of thing, even though I give out lots of compels to gain FATE as much as I can.
A simple solution (that goes into House Rules territory) would be a "Luck" skill that is purely used in declarations that don't have anything to do with another skill. When there isn't an obvious skill, you use Luck. This skill could also be used by the DM for random event and to gauge their general luckiness/unluckiness.
Most of the time people are so starved for FATE points that they would rather give up on, for example, getting into the house than spend a precious FATE. At least, that's how my players react to that kind of thing, even though I give out lots of compels to gain FATE as much as I can.
A simple solution (that goes into House Rules territory) would be a "Luck" skill that is purely used in declarations that don't have anything to do with another skill. When there isn't an obvious skill, you use Luck. This skill could also be used by the DM for random event and to gauge their general luckiness/unluckiness.
Well, I think that a lot of that FATE starving comes from making -everything- a Declaration. If we had most tasks just be regular skill checks...ie, we're interacting with reality as presented, with just the actions and reactions of our characters, then most of those won't need FATE points. Or narrative alterations.
Or am I wrong about that? Are there situations were we just roll a skill without also Declaring anything?
Like, if I have Juno just bust out her lockpicks and try to open the door, is that legit? or do I have to say, "The door's lock can be picked by me," and then treat it as a Declaration with the Burglery skill?
Or am I wrong about that? Are there situations were we just roll a skill without also Declaring anything?
Like, if I have Juno just bust out her lockpicks and try to open the door, is that legit? or do I have to say, "The door's lock can be picked by me," and then treat it as a Declaration with the Burglery skill?
ThirdWizard
First Post
If your character is actively trying to do something, that's not a declaration. A declaration is only when you, as a player, are trying to do something external to your character.
If either of you had the Burglary skill, you could just say "I pick the lock on the door" and I would assign a difficulty, say Fair for a run-of-the-mill lock on a house. Then you roll and you either pick the lock or you don't, just like in any other game.
Examples of skill use vs. declaration:
- Cracking a combination lock on a safe: Skill check
- The safe was left open by its last user: Declaration
- Try to dodge a potholes in a car chase: Skill check
- Knowing your way around so you can avoid streets with potholes: Skill check
- They've repaved the area recently so there are no potholes: Declaration
There are a couple of reasons I suggested using a Declaration here.
First, its a good tutorial as to what a declaration is. This is a low-danger situation without a lot of pressure behind it. That way, later you've got the rules under your belt and you can start throwing them around when it really counts more easily. This is also one of the rules that is most counter-intuitive to long time roleplayers, so if we can get this down, then the rest of the rules should flow more easily.
Second, this is a good situation in which to make a Declaration. Neither of you have the Burglary skill, so you're looking for a way in without any particular character ability to do so. In situations like this, where there is a very clear goal but no immediate solution, it's faster for the players to create a solution through a Declaration instead of playing twenty questions with the GM. This means faster gameplay and the opportunity for the players to start to think creatively about solutions
If either of you had the Burglary skill, you could just say "I pick the lock on the door" and I would assign a difficulty, say Fair for a run-of-the-mill lock on a house. Then you roll and you either pick the lock or you don't, just like in any other game.
Examples of skill use vs. declaration:
- Cracking a combination lock on a safe: Skill check
- The safe was left open by its last user: Declaration
- Try to dodge a potholes in a car chase: Skill check
- Knowing your way around so you can avoid streets with potholes: Skill check
- They've repaved the area recently so there are no potholes: Declaration
There are a couple of reasons I suggested using a Declaration here.
First, its a good tutorial as to what a declaration is. This is a low-danger situation without a lot of pressure behind it. That way, later you've got the rules under your belt and you can start throwing them around when it really counts more easily. This is also one of the rules that is most counter-intuitive to long time roleplayers, so if we can get this down, then the rest of the rules should flow more easily.
Second, this is a good situation in which to make a Declaration. Neither of you have the Burglary skill, so you're looking for a way in without any particular character ability to do so. In situations like this, where there is a very clear goal but no immediate solution, it's faster for the players to create a solution through a Declaration instead of playing twenty questions with the GM. This means faster gameplay and the opportunity for the players to start to think creatively about solutions
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