Friday, 20th July, 2012, 08:50 PM #81
Spellbinder (Lvl 16)
- Join Date
- Mar 2002
ø Ignore Mallus
Right now I'm running a campaign full of happy AD&D players. But we were happy 4e players before that, and happy 3.5e players before that.
By the time 5e is released, who knows what we'll be playing? I certainly can't, at this juncture, rule out 5e."You should probably put your bandit hat on now. Personally, I- I don't have one, but I modified this tube sock." - Ash, Fantastic Mr. Fox.
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Novice (Lvl 1)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
ø Ignore Kabluey
Plus don't forget that the rpg market is not a zero-sum game. A lot of gamers play and support multiple systems. My group contains a player who is a big Pathfinder fan, yet he enjoys (and has purchased) Savage Worlds for our main campaign, and thoroughly enjoyed the two DDN playtests I've run. I would be surprised if he didn't purchase the 5E books when they come out, but that doesn't mean he's going to abandon Pathfinder either. It is possible to enjoy and support more than one game - even editions of D&D - at the same time.
Honestly, I think the chances of 5E not selling well in the short term are pretty slim. It's freakin' D&D! People are going to buy it just out of curiosity, just like they have with all other versions. It's really the long-term prospects that will be decided by the game's quality.
Grandfather of Assassins (Lvl 19)
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- Jan 2008
ø Ignore El Mahdi
We had a saying in Aircraft Maintenance: "Just because a Pilot was scratching his butt when an indicator malfunctioned, doesn't mean that the Pilot scratching his butt had anything to do with the malfunction."
A Correlation means that the end of 4E and the edition wars are reciprocal, parallel, or complimentary to eachother, and there's just no evidence of this. Just because they happened concurrently does not prove correlation, cause and effect, or even contribution. If you had data (or anybody had data) that showed a significant amount of potential 4E fans didn't buy 4E or stopped buying 4E because of the edition warring - then you'd have proof. Without it, all you're doing is making claims with no evidence to support them - and making them as if they are self-apparent fact.
As with depraved indifference, I don't believe correlation means what you think it means...
There's been an edition war with every edition change, and the people waging that war are a vocal minority. 4E is dead simply because an overwhelming amount of gamers voted with their wallets. Period.
C'mon Man. Your declaring this stuff from thread to thread to thread is nothing more than salvo's in yet another edition war.
If you're so against edition wars, why are you insisting on continuing them in this manner...?
The edition wars are nothing more than a sideshow...a very unpleasant sideshow, but a sideshow nonetheless. They'll always be present, with each and every edition.
But if you don't like them so much, stop contributing to them.
With the use of the OGL, there can be much more than just a "vague imitation". The OGL has been used for some very good products. And those "retro-clones" are far from "vague imitations".
You're making broad assumptions and wild forecasts based on little or no evidence, and doing so as if this was fact.
It's not fact. But it is edition warring.
1. Nobody knows if WotC will keep 4E materials available for sale as electronic downloads or not...nobody except WotC themselves. They may even make them available for POD. With what WotC has been saying lately, I'd be very surprised if elctronic versions of all the old materials (the previous pdf's, though not necessarily in pdf format) didn't start becoming available again before the release of 5E. They've straight out said they are working to bring them back.
2. DDI is going to continue 4E support at least up through the release of 5E, and most likely longer, and possibly in perpetuity. If they don't get enough 4E fans to switch to 5E, I can't imagine them not wanting to keep those fans as customers. The best and easiest way is simply to continue DDI 4E support: as all it requires is maintenance and not development, and can garner a continuous revenue stream.
3. If WotC doesn't continue 4E DDI support, and doesn't make 4E books available through download (or POD), I'm certain that somebody will make an OGL version...if not many someones. And I honestly do not think there would be any legal resistance.
4. As long as anybody is playing 4E, which I'm certain people will, then 4E will never, ever, EVER, be a failure. I think you're going to be looking for that "final proof" you seem so looking forward to appearing, for a very very long time. Seems to me, that time would be much better spent playing and talking about games you like, rather than waiting for an "I told you so" moment. I find this to be a very unenjoyable way to participate in such an enjoyable and wide ranging hobby as ours, and I think that's very sad.
Last edited by El Mahdi; Friday, 20th July, 2012 at 09:17 PM.
Magsman (Lvl 14)
- Join Date
- Jun 2002
- Antioch, IL
ø Ignore Vyvyan Basterd
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Has anyone pointed out that the OP's premise is flawed? If D&D Next is looking at unifying players from all editions, why couldn't there be a module that added the 4e overlay to the simpler core rules? Or 3.5, 3, 2, 1, BECMI, B/X, OD&D? In this fashion, D&D Next could very well do what the OP's petition claims to want: supporting all 8 editions of the game (not four, OP).
Also flawed is the assumption that "numerous OGL/3.5 fans and Pathfinder converts who have refused to transition to 4E is a sore spot with Wizards of the Coast, representing a substantial loss of revenue and support for the current edition of D&D." Despite your claims at being inclusive, you sure are excluding a great many fans of other editions of the game who didn't support 4e. D&D is more than 3rd and 4th editions. The OSR and retro-clone movements show that there is still substantial revenue to be gained from appealing to those audiences. That is to say nothing of the thousands of players who buy up out of print TSR titles and simply continue playing their favored edition.
If WotC does D&D Next correctly, they can appeal to about as broad an audience as you imagine! The real question becomes this: can they win back the audience they lost or alienated? That will take marketing and a caring and concerted effort. Speaking for myself, it would take a lot to lure me from Castles and Crusades and put my faith in WotC again. It would also take a commitment to keep D&D Next around more than 5-6 years, which at this point, I don't think we'll see.
A 1e title so awesome it's not in the book (Lvl 21)
OSR, retro-clone movements is a fact. Given today's economic situation, is it really wise to not try and actually include everyone? If I didn't feel it was substantial enough a market for WotC to go after, I'd not have mentioned it.
The Grand Druid (Lvl 20)
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- Jan 2002
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ø Ignore the Jester
Myrmidon (Lvl 10)
- Join Date
- Jan 2002
- St. Louis
ø Ignore trancejeremy
old school game designer to work on it.
I think it was mostly an attempt to go after the Pathfinder people, which is why they brought in Monte Cook (and look how that worked out).
Old school people are old school people because they like their editions - they just want them supported (which 5e does not do). Not a new one to replace it.
Indeed, one of them made a post very much like the OP did
UAD&D: Dear Wizards of the Coast...
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