Equipment Clarification

hemera · Jul 18, 2012

Hihi all,

Before I get to the good business of upgrading my inventory after surviving in good health my first adventure, I do have to run a couple quick questions past people.

First is one that shouldn't be too bad, but just to clarify if I have a light shield and an empty hand, and a weapon in the other can I just switch the weapon to my shield hand, cast and move back? I saw an entry in the pathfinder faq on that, but just wanted to be clear.

The other, and less clear is my beloved whip. I was thinking it was more or less like the whip dagger was in 3/3.5 just a whip that did lethal damage but I saw a couple posts on the Paizo forums saying that the official stance on the Scorpion whip is that it doesn't share any characteristics with the whip other than proficiency. (I guess it was printed in one book as being a lethal version of the whip, and then in Ultimate Combat as being just a weapon with the performance ability)

Can anyone help?

Thanks!

HolyMan · Jul 18, 2012

So can't sleep so I went cruising the paizo boards as well as the SRD.

For your first question - You may hold (but not use) a weapon in your shield hand, when carrying a light shield. But it would be up to the DM to allow you to switch it over as a free action (as you described above).

Standard: cast
Move: move back
Free: switch weapon hands

For me I would think it would be more of a move action as it would take a few seconds to place it from one hand to the other. Not an official ruling just my take on it.

______________________________

I now have a headache (and a new reason not to be able to sleep) from sorting through the scorpion whip forums.

Seems there are three versions out there.

The AA version: exotic one-handed melee; 5gp; 1d4 (medium dmg); crit x2; 3lbs; Slashing; disarm, reach, trip

Entry: This whip has a series of razor-sharp blades and fangs inset along the tip. It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip.

The UC version: exotic light melee weapon; 5gp; 1d4 (medium dmg); crit x2;3lbs; Slashing; performance

Entry: This whip has a series of razor-sharp blades and fangs inset along the tip. It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.

The SRD version: exotic light melee weapon; 5gp; 1d4 (medium dmg); crit x2; 3lbs; Slashing; performance, disarm, reach, trip

Entry: This whip has a series of razor-sharp blades and fangs inset along its tip.

Benefit: It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.

Weapon Feature(s): performance (plus disarm, reach, and trip if you are proficient with whip.)

Sorry if anyone else now has a headache.

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On the boards the banter back and forth but never set to which version is the latest (they don't mention the SRD version at all). If there was errata out for UC then maybe there would be an update to the entry and a little clarification.

Only thing to do is ask which version of the scorpion whip the judges wish to allow for the LPF.

My vote would be for the SRD version (although it should have remained a one-handed melee weapon that allows for weapon finesse and not switched to light, making it light helps with TWF to much for my taste) -

A scorpion whip is just a whip that deals lethal dmg due to the "series of razor-sharp blades and fangs inset along its tip" it should have been listed as an upgrade you can make to a whip and not as a weapon in and unto itself, nobody is going to take EWP(scorpion whip).

HM

Maidhc O Casain · Jul 18, 2012

Although LPF has set a precedent for using later source material over Adventurer's Armory when the same equipment is in both, I prefer the AA version of the scorpion whip (for the record, I have no characters currently using said weapon).

It just makes no sense to me that just because you've added shiny bits of metal to a whip, it's all the sudden not a reach weapon! And all the sudden you can't trip people with it, or wrap it around an enemy's weapon hand and give a good jerk. It's still a whip, it's still used the same way.

I can, sort of, see making it a light weapon - it's weight would be increased only slightly, but it's more dangerous to the wielder and requires more care in its use. It should still be usable with Weapon Finesse, IMO - if any weapon requires Dexterity to use it would be the whip. And it probably should be a performance weapon - those rules were added after AA was published.

In any case, even if you take it to the maximum usefulness from all sources and make it light, performance, reach, trip, and disarm I don't really think it's broken . . .

My two coppers worth.

hemera · Jul 18, 2012

I had used it in my last adventure, but I'm not a weapon finesse type. I just like the idea of my bard staying in the back using her spells to charm, and befuddle her enemies while disarming and tripping them. Outright killing is her last resort. I'm going for someone kind of flashy and showy.

The shield one I wasn't sure of, I wasn't sure if I should upgrade to a light shield from a buckler or not. I could cut some of my carry weight with a darkwood shield, so that's what I was hoping to do.

Artur Hawkwing · Jul 25, 2012

Systole has provided a Scorpion Whip as treasure in the Toad in the Hole campaign. Perhaps a ping by him to see which one he used for the NPC might help?

Satin Knights · Jul 27, 2012

My suggestion:
AA Version: This is "the" Scorpion Whip. Bull whip with razor wire. All the original specs, no performance.

UC Version: This is a performance whip. Therefore, it is a lion tamer's whip. It gets renamed "performance whip" or "lion tamer's whip" in LPF. Good for performance, but nothing else.

We will leave out the other performance type whip, "Cat-o'-Nine-Tails" until such time as the Pirates of the Inner Sea is approved or the the Ultimate Equipment book. Lesser whip, but good fluff device.

dammitbiscuit · Aug 1, 2012

HolyMan said:
UC
If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.

HolyMan · Aug 2, 2012

I still think scorpion whips shouldn't be a weapon in and of itself but an upgrade to a standard whip. Then there wouldn't be need for any confusing language.

Might be how I play them in my other games form now on.

HM