D&D 5E Another D&D Next Playtest Survey

Raith5 · Jul 19, 2012

GX.Sigma said:
Everyone who played D&D within those 34 years (i.e., nearly everyone who has played D&D) recognizes D&D spellcasting as an iconic element, and if the game doesn't include it, it won't feel like that same game to them. We have already seen this with 4th Edition, whose radical changes have led many to declare "it isn't D&D." Even though you are not one of those people, you must understand that 4th Edition is the clear outlier in the big picture, and that both tradition and popular demand mandate that D&D spellcasting is a "core" mechanic in D&D Next.

OK, but the problem is that this is the path to creating a game which is already on my shelf. I just think there is a danger of here of D&DN creating something that captures past editions so well that there is no real need to buy it!

Connorsrpg · Jul 19, 2012

I am certainly for the one spell across all levels/slots, as opposed to separate write-ups at different levels for a 'fire spell'.

So one spell with the variants written into it depending upon which slot you prep it in. Not a massive list of spells with slightly different names.

But each spell MUST be thematically linked (especially for clerics). I do NOT want opposites combined and I would hate to see all stat-buff spells as one (like Savage Worlds, where we separate it).

If you worship a deity of knowledge for eg, I don't think you should be increasing people's strength. God of healing - you shouldn't get 'inflict wounds' just because you can heal them. There might be reasons for this - the god may actually have that side to them, but at least keep the spells to one thematic idea for my mind. That shouls also reduce the list somewhat.

Edit: Oh yes, and what a tedious survey. Wouldn't it have been better asking players HOW they want spells done and then what sorts of spells each caster should have. I could not choose and selected "None of These" after Wizard lvl0. Then added comments at the bottom

gyor · Jul 19, 2012

I mentioned in the comments section that spells with least, lesser, greater, minor, ect... Should be one spells that grows more powerful when you put it in a higher level slot. So putting fireball in a higher slot turns it into greater fireball, and putting it in an even higher slot turns it into delayed fireball. Cure minor wounds becomes cure lesser wounds, then moderate wounds and so forth depending on the slot you place it in. I'd do the same with the image spells right from silent image to permanant image.

This would free up space by killing redundancy..

Argyle King · Jul 19, 2012

I don't have a problem with any of the spells. Usually, most of my problems come from how early in the game certain things become available.

Stormonu · Jul 19, 2012

Looking at that list disappointed me in how many Lesser/Greater/Mass/Cure Level X spells are in the version I favor. Just make the base spell and some sort of universal mechanic for the Amped and Mass versions of the spell already.

Likewise, when it gets stripped down to the likes of 10 spells per level, resurrecting Reversible spells for the cleric seems like an excellent idea (and I put that in my comments).

I also didn't end up selecting the AnimalName StatIncrease spells either because I realized they'd take up so many slots in any given level. Roll them into one spell, make the spellcaster either choose what stat it boosts when they learn the spell or when they memorize it, and go with that.

As far as the Symbol spells go, I'd like to see them stripped out and replaced with some sort of "crafting" mechanic - literally etching any ol' spell into a surface (and perhaps an advanced technique for drawing it in the air - but there doesn't need to be a "Symbol of Sleep" spell; just a "Sleep" spell and some universal mechanic for turning it into a symbol). Same goes for Permanency.

Finally, I also put a big ol' X through the cleric 8th and 9th level spells. I always thought that was one of 3E's big mistakes with the cleric.

I'm hoping the final list per level will be more than 10; B/X's 12 spells per level made it easy to randomly roll up spellbooks/lists with a d12.

Were there any spells folks noticed that weren't on there that probably should have been? For example, I don't remember seeing Rope Trick being listed. Also a little surprising that they listed the Cure spells for every level for cleric, but only listed the Summon Monster spells at 1st level.

KidSnide · Jul 19, 2012

Minigiant said:
Copied and Pasted "Good/Evil/Law/Chaos/Cure/Inflict spells are iconic to create clerics of all stripes and alignments." over and over and over.

Eh... I think those spells are fine for certain cleric spheres, but I like my clerics to be associated with a concept or a domain, rather than an alignment. Worshiping "law" or "good" always seemed like a very esoteric way to build a religion. Yes, it should be supported (it's useful for some parts and it's historically part of D&D), but it shouldn't be a default part for all clerics.

Raith5 said:
I found it a little funny how 4th ed spells only really made it into first level spells for wizard and clerics.

The designers have commented that one of the problems they found with 4e is that, with six bazillion different powers, you didn't see iconic bits of magic show up. In earlier versions of D&D, there was a specific thing called a "Fireball". In 4e, there are quite a few ways to have a blast or burst with fire damage. One of them is called "fireball" but it's sometimes hard to tell the difference.

A result of this is that the player base didn't have a common experience with many powers, unless those powers happened to be unusually effective for a common class (e.g. Twin Strike, Low Slash and Come and Get It).

-KS

Lord Mhoram · Jul 19, 2012

Interesting.

I noted that the spells should not be "inflict wounds" but "Cause wounds"

Celestian · Jul 19, 2012

TwinBahamut said:
You bold 34 years like it's supposed to mean something. It doesn't. Who cares if a mechanic is older than I am if the mechanic is still widely hated? You say that it is popular, but I've never seen any sign of that. The public polls that WotC held indicated the exact opposite, and I've never seen any gathering of D&D players that didn't have extremely divided opinions on the matter.

Have that same poll on Dragonsfoot or Purpleworm and you will see wildly different results.

CleverNickName · Jul 19, 2012

Eh, I took the survey...clicked on my favorite spells, wrote in a few little comments at the bottom of each category about "this one is my favorite and here's why" or the occasional "why isn't this spell on the list." Then at the bottom, I left a giant pile of comments in the last comment box.

My biggest comment was that I felt the spells need to be consolidated. And I wrote two ways that this could be accomplished. I'm sure there are more, but these were the only ones that came to mind.

1. Some spells should be able to be cast in reverse, like they were in the BECM days.

Blindness --> Remove Blindness
Contagion --> Cure Disease
Light --> Darkness
Cure Wounds --> Inflict Wounds
Flesh to Stone --> Stone to Flesh

And so forth. Not only would this condense the spells a great deal, it's pretty cool to say "my cleric casts the spell backwards!" It has a very retro, late 70's, backwards-messages-on-my-Beatles-record feel to it.

2. Write one spell, and let it scale by spell level.

Take the Cure Wounds family of spells, for example. At 1st level, it heals 1d8+1 points of damage, just like the Cure Light Wounds spell we all know and love. If you prepare it as a 2nd level spell, it heals 2d8+5 instead, as per the Cure Moderate Wounds spell. And so on and so forth, through the spell levels: Cure Serious, Cure Critical, all of the Cure Mass ones, and ultimately end up with a Mass Heal effect at 9th level, which cures everything for everyone. Combine this with the Reversible spells, and you can replace 18 spells with JUST ONE.

This can be done with other spells as well. Write one spell, called Summon Flames or whatever. Then you get Burning Hands (if prepared as a Lv. 1 spell) --> Flaming Sphere (Lv. 2) --> Fireball (Lv. 3) --> ... --> Meteor Swarm (Lv. 9).

Some spells can start at higher levels and scale from there, maybe even skipping levels. A Restore Life spell could go something like this: Raise Dead (Lv. 5) --> Resurrection (Lv. 7) --> True Resurrection (Lv. 9). Reverse these, and you get a Destroy Life spell that slays someone (Lv. 5), slays them and traps their soul (Lv. 7), and obliterates them forever (Lv. 9).

I'm writing a great deal more here than I could in the survey, of course...I hit the word limit pretty quickly. And then I thanked them for their time, and clicked "Submit." I don't know what they will do with it, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Jacob Marley · Jul 19, 2012

Stormonu said:
Were there any spells folks noticed that weren't on there that probably should have been? For example, I don't remember seeing Rope Trick being listed.

Rope Trick was on the list. I commented on making sure the duration was something closer to 1st Edition's 2 turns/level as opposed to 3rd Edition's 1 hour/level. I don't remember the 1st Edition version to be overly powerful.