Kickstarter Too many Kickstarter projects? Is Kickstarter the new d20 glut?

Debby · Jul 30, 2012

I joined three Kickstarter projects: Order of the Stick, Rappan Athuk, and Journeys to the West. I probably would not have joined if there was no name recognition for me.

I'd rather gamble on the quality of a unknown source that was already completed from an e-retailer (RPGNow.com and Paizo.com tend to be my first looks because they often have reviews). Granted, even that hasn't prevented me from buying a total stinker on occasion. If nothing else, with the e-retailer I can always post my own review.

With Kickstarter, you get no outside feedback about how good or bad things are going other than what is posted. Order of the Stick was waaaay behind, though it was handled admirably and with more than a little humor. Kudos to Mr. Burlew. I wish everyone were as honest and upfront. Unfortunately, that is not always the case.

I suppose that anyone who was burned by a failed project could take it to Small Claims Court, but what a hassle. For most people, it wouldn't be worth the time and effort to recoup a small loss. For bigger losses it wouldn't be out of the question.

As for advertising on the front page: I skim it usually. If something catches my eye, then perhaps I'll read more. We gamers are a fickle bunch so there's no way of pleasing everyone. As long as things aren't bunched up, I think putting all the Kickstarter Projects in one place wouldn't be bad. The glut will eventually decrease.

ahayford · Jul 30, 2012

Chris_Nightwing said:
Two things bother me about Kickstarters:

1) That they have become so ubiquitous that even big names are getting in on the act - completely undermining the principle of the system. It is a way for small projects to get off the ground without taking out a risky loan - the risk is taken on by the consumer. Large companies and big names who do this should damn well take out a loan, not shift the risk onto the consumer (see Recent Economic Collapse), especially as they typically take bigger risks that small projects.

I just don't see this as being a legitimate argument. Crowd funding is something that should be open to all levels of development. Smaller projects have an opportunity to get an audience...and larger projects have an opportunity to prove themselves to the fans rather then having to go through outside sources to get money.

You mention banks and loans...but typically gaming projects do not get money this way. They have to go through venture capitalists. For video game companies, this typically means that fun and game play can take a backseat to what can generate the most revenue. A developer that is free of these puppet strings is free to create something that really resonates with the fans.

I might take a risk on a small unproven company for $15 if they had a good presentation, prototypes, etc....but for something where I'm throwing down a larger wad of cash, I want somebody that has proven they can bring a product to market. I have absolutely no problem with established companies using Kickstarter, the Patron Model, or any number of crowd funding sources to bring stuff to market quicker. Particularly when I get cheaper/free/exclusive stuff out of the deal. If you don't want to take that risk, don't pledge.

Chris_Nightwing said:
Two things bother me about Kickstarters:

2) It is only a matter of time before the system is exploited. I would be shocked if there isn't a man-in-the-middle scam up there right now. You just promise what someone else has promised, but put a lot more effort into making yourself well known. You charge $1 more per investor, and invest in the real project yourself every time someone invests in your project. You get free money, the project still goes ahead - and best of all you can spread the risk across multiple projects - just like being a hedge fund manager!

I just don't see this happening. The internet would figure this out pretty quickly and flambe anyone doing so. How would this work exactly anyway? Someone sets up a RPG setting source book and another person sets up a KS with the exact same product for more money?

A much more likely risk is someone taking the money and running....you can avoid/mitigate that by researching the KS creator and deciding if they are trustworthy.

Krug · Jul 30, 2012

Chris_Nightwing said:
Two things bother me about Kickstarters:

1) That they have become so ubiquitous that even big names are getting in on the act - completely undermining the principle of the system. It is a way for small projects to get off the ground without taking out a risky loan - the risk is taken on by the consumer. Large companies and big names who do this should damn well take out a loan, not shift the risk onto the consumer (see Recent Economic Collapse), especially as they typically take bigger risks that small projects.

Have to disagree. In the case for Double Fine or Steve Jackson, the consumers are taking part of the risk. Besides, they also draw in more users for kickstarter/crowdfunding, and if it gives the consumer/funder a good fuzzy feeling, that's great. Double Fine went to Kickstarter to fund a game that nobody else wanted to fund, because it didn't fit the mold of what was in the market. I'm all for the big guys as it raises more awareness of crowdfunding.

2) It is only a matter of time before the system is exploited. I would be shocked if there isn't a man-in-the-middle scam up there right now. You just promise what someone else has promised, but put a lot more effort into making yourself well known. You charge $1 more per investor, and invest in the real project yourself every time someone invests in your project. You get free money, the project still goes ahead - and best of all you can spread the risk across multiple projects - just like being a hedge fund manager!

It's already being exploited and there's been at least one fake kickstarter that since has been removed. I won't be surprised if some big funded campaign, such as yet another ipod watch strap thingie, that falls through, which makes funders get more wary of what they're funding in future.

Mark CMG · Jul 30, 2012

Might be worthwhile doing a WotC roundup on Monday (as it seems you do), a Kickstarter roundup on Wednesday, and a Paizo roundup on Friday (I think that's when they send out their updates anyway). Fill in Tuesday and Thursday with other news items and essays that get promoted to News. In this way it avoids having the front page seemingly deluged or glutted with WotC blog posts, Kickstarter projects, and such, and the rest of the RPG News you wish to post along with the essays and editorials, as well as reviews, don't wind up getting lost in the shuffle.

gamerprinter · Jul 30, 2012

Mark CMG said:
Might be worthwhile doing a WotC roundup on Monday (as it seems you do), a Kickstarter roundup on Wednesday, and a Paizo roundup on Friday (I think that's when they send out their updates anyway). Fill in Tuesday and Thursday with other news items and essays that get promoted to News. In this way it avoids having the front page seemingly deluged or glutted with WotC blog posts, Kickstarter projects, and such, and the rest of the RPG News you wish to post along with the essays and editorials, as well as reviews, don't wind up getting lost in the shuffle.

This.

Personally, as not a 4e gamer, nor someone interested in DDN, I find all the D&D news items more distracting and a nuissance. However, I realize there are many fans of that, so I don't bother complaining. However in the look at a possibility of removing the Kickstarter listings, I think over exposure of one companies news should be on the list to be removed as much.

Better to leave the News section as is, keeping both Kickstarters and D&D News - that would be my vote.

Morrus · Jul 30, 2012

gamerprinter said:
I find all the D&D news items more distracting and a nuissance.

I'm afraid you'll never escape D&D news on a site which began life as a D&D news site.

gamerprinter · Jul 30, 2012

Morrus said:
I'm afraid you'll never escape D&D news on a site which began life as a D&D news site.

Well, of course not, that's why I finished the last post with "keep things as they are."

Don't remove want I don't want removed, nor anyone else's preference...

3 or 4 DDN items would be fine, but more than half... I guess I have the same complaint as those seeing 1/3 of items as Kickstarter - actually that's plenty enough for any one kind of news item.

Mark CMG · Jul 30, 2012

The other benefit to collecting much of the WotC, Paizo, and Kickstarter project news items on three different days is that they'd have some Prime News status on their own days. Plus, individual items can certainly be highlighted. And,of course, with the new ability to promote threads and mirror them on two forums is that the ones that gain particular traction would have the added benefit of breakout status. It's be a good way to make sure the site avoids becoming associated with just one effort or company, since it has grown far beyond its humble beginnings.

ahayford · Jul 30, 2012

Being a news site...publishing the information when it is, in fact, news, is probably critical

airwalkrr · Jul 30, 2012

Wow! It's like Morrus read my mind. I just opened my enworld newsletter today and saw anvils and axes at the top and thought "oh great, ANOTHER kickstarter." I think it's a far that will die down, but probably be with us for some Ike albeit to a lesser extent sometime very soon.