D&D 5th Edition And Lo, the Fighter Did Get a Shtick of his Own... COMBAT SUPERIORITY!




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  1. #1
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    And Lo, the Fighter did get a shtick of his own... (7/30 L&L)

    Looks like an interesting start.

    My main concerns about the Fighter were...

    (1) Lack of tactical options
    (2) Lack of class features that belong to them as uniquely as other classes' features
    (3) Ability to passably defend a party, say through Opportunity Attacks or something of that nature.

    Today's article gets the first two started, at least. It looks pretty promising, and it's good to see they're re-thinking stuff based on feedback.

    -O
    Last edited by Obryn; Monday, 30th July, 2012 at 05:20 AM. Reason: mentioning the article

  2. #2
    I like it. I thought I had missed the part where it said "per day" or "per encounter," so I checked again and it's per round. Sick.

    My only Fighter-related concern now is that this adds complexity to the class that's supposed to be the simplest one. I guess it's still fine (you can just use your CS dice for damage every round), but it does add more fiddly round-to-round decision making, which is starting to sound like the minor action thing all over again.

    All in all, looks good, will have to test to see.

    But I'm sad that they're not doing the two themes thing. I wanted a dual-wielding magic-user fighter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GX.Sigma View Post
    My only Fighter-related concern now is that this adds complexity to the class that's supposed to be the simplest one. I guess it's still fine (you can just use your CS dice for damage every round), but it does add more fiddly round-to-round decision making, which is starting to sound like the minor action thing all over again.
    What I like about it is the inherent customizability of it. Say you just want to run a bog-simple, Old School style game, or, on the player-side, a bog-simple, Old School style fighter. You just put that CS die in damage and you're good to go. But maybe you're more into tactical grid play. Then you can use in many more variable ways -- perhaps for forced movement, perhaps to soak up damage meant for an ally, and so on. It gives you both the simple, uncomplex, "give-it-to-the-newby-and-let-him-go-to-town" fighter, as well as the complex, "I-want-lots-of-options-and-not-just-damage" fighter.

    And most happy, looks like it will add options without burdening the chargen process. I don't have to keep track of more fiddly bonuses -- I just take out an extra die or dice when the pooh hits the fan.

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    I think this is kind of hilarious.

    Functionally, the change seems to be this:

    1. Take your fighter's bonus to damage.
    2. Convert it into dice that you roll.
    3. Give fighters some options to trade damage for other things.


    Functionally, it's the same as something like an expanded Expertise. You trade one thing for another.

    What's kind of hilarious is seeing how much that little change can alter someone's opinions.

    Reinforces my idea that game design is 80% psychology.

    It's smart, though. Rolling dice is always more fun than adding bonuses.
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    ° Ignore VinylTap
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamikaze Midget View Post
    I think this is kind of hilarious.

    Functionally, the change seems to be this:

    1. Take your fighter's bonus to damage.
    2. Convert it into dice that you roll.
    3. Give fighters some options to trade damage for other things.


    Functionally, it's the same as something like an expanded Expertise. You trade one thing for another.

    What's kind of hilarious is seeing how much that little change can alter someone's opinions.

    Reinforces my idea that game design is 80% psychology.

    It's smart, though. Rolling dice is always more fun than adding bonuses.
    The trick is finding and executing scalable yet mechanically simple solutions to these sorts of problems, but yes, you've managed to crack 'game design'...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamikaze Midget View Post
    I think this is kind of hilarious.

    Functionally, the change seems to be this:

    1. Take your fighter's bonus to damage.
    2. Convert it into dice that you roll.
    3. Give fighters some options to trade damage for other things.


    Functionally, it's the same as something like an expanded Expertise. You trade one thing for another.

    What's kind of hilarious is seeing how much that little change can alter someone's opinions.

    Reinforces my idea that game design is 80% psychology.

    It's smart, though. Rolling dice is always more fun than adding bonuses.
    Sorta. There were basically two questions:
    1) Daily/Encounter powers vs No Daily/Encounter powers?
    2) What *are* the powers?

    This answered point (1), and in the way I favor (yay!).
    It say very little about (2). What it does suggest is solidly enh/hopefully-only-first-draft.

    That said, I would not rely on the dice staying dice. I hope they don't. Action points as dice work because they are rarely used, so the extra time-cost is minimal. Extra damage dice really slow things down (you have to find them, you have to NOT roll off the edge of the table or bounce your dice awkwardly, and then you have to add up the results while not forgetting the static bonuses). If you start having multiple dice which get split up and spent at different times in a round, it'll slow things down a lot more than you expect. If the Fighter's player starts hemming and hawing about using 1d6 to soak a 3 point attack where some of the soak might get wasted or saving it for a bigger attack that might miss, or trying to figure out how many dice to convert to damage to drop one enemy without wasting any, well, ewww.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraydak View Post
    That said, I would not rely on the dice staying dice. I hope they don't. Action points as dice work because they are rarely used, so the extra time-cost is minimal. Extra damage dice really slow things down (you have to find them, you have to NOT roll off the edge of the table or bounce your dice awkwardly, and then you have to add up the results while not forgetting the static bonuses). If you start having multiple dice which get split up and spent at different times in a round, it'll slow things down a lot more than you expect.
    I think this depends way more on the individual than you seem to think. We switched from using static damage modifiers to bonus dice a while ago. I wanted to see if it sped up combat and it did. For us, of course; I know this is counter-intuitive to a lot of people.

    I can see how choosing where to spend the dice each round is going to bog down play (although not more than choosing what power to use), but for me (and my players, bar one), throwing a d6 at the problem is probably always going be quicker than having to think about the probabilities of modifiers.

    (With a shout out to @Kamikaze Midget's point about psychology above.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamikaze Midget View Post
    Reinforces my idea that game design is 80% psychology.
    I tried to give XP for this, but, alas, could not.

    You're absolutely right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamikaze Midget View Post
    I think this is kind of hilarious.

    Functionally, the change seems to be this:

    1. Take your fighter's bonus to damage.
    2. Convert it into dice that you roll.
    3. Give fighters some options to trade damage for other things.
    Yep. At the end of the day, isn't this just another bonus? I mean, you are adding a number to another number--your sword gets a bonus to attack or damage, for example--so does it really make much difference if that number is +1d4, or +2?

    I guess it boils down to how much you like rolling dice.

    "Woot, I get to roll more dice!" says the player.
    "Crap, I have to roll how many dice now?" says the DM.
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    ° Ignore VinylTap
    Quote Originally Posted by CleverNickName View Post
    Yep. At the end of the day, isn't this just another bonus? I mean, you are adding a number to another number--your sword gets a bonus to attack or damage, for example--so does it really make much difference if that number is +1d4, or +2?

    I guess it boils down to how much you like rolling dice.

    "Woot, I get to roll more dice!" says the player.
    "Crap, I have to roll how many dice now?" says the DM.
    The gap is bigger than you're making it to be. Adding a random element to the system has a bigger effect than a simple modifier, both in the math and psychologically. Not to mention this system allows dice to be be used not only as dice, but also spent as tokens or counters and its still a fairly simple mechanic and easily explained/understood by new players.

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