D&D 5E And Lo, the Fighter Did Get a Shtick of his Own... COMBAT SUPERIORITY!

VinylTap · Aug 2, 2012

MarkB said:
So far, we don't really know how big the numbers get, or how fast. I've seen several suggested progressions, but really, for all we know, it could be 1d4 at 1st-4th level, 2d6 at 5th-9th, 3d8 at 10th-14th and 4d10 at 15th-19th.

And, aside from the reactive options, I get the impression that CS dice are intended more to be spent on adding options to an existing action rather than granting additional actions.

You're absolutely right, we don't know yet, but its a lot of fun to speculate. But is that really what it sounds like? If so does the fighter only get to use ,say, 1 d6 for a trip and 1 d6 for damage? Does this means the fighter will end up with x +d6 dmg as he levels, and only have to choose between one of those dice to decide if he uses his special ability? Or is the attack restricted to just one special effect? if i really want to get complicated could my single blow increase my AC as well as trip my opponent?

All I'm saying is that a a lot of the possible uses and applications for this mechanic, that people are speculating about in this thread, get unruly very quickly. I'm all for adding flavor to the Fighter, but I don't want him to become the new 'Wizard".

Argyle King · Aug 2, 2012

I like the basic idea. I am pleasantly surprised by it -especially at a time when I'm leaning toward negativity regarding D&D.

I hope they remember the goal of bounded accuracy (and 'less vertical') numbers when they get to the point of implementing this though.

The Little Raven · Aug 2, 2012

So, the fighter gets a certain amount of dice/number of sides depending on level, and can spend them to do stuff like boost damage, boost accuracy, do a special attack, and the like. Maybe I missed something, but it sounds like it's basically a point system that pretends that it isn't a point system.

nomotog · Aug 2, 2012

Grydan said:
My initial reaction is that I quite like it. Giving the fighter some actual choices to make, but still allowing them to take the simple option (roll it as damage) seems to preserve the best of both worlds there.

However, my reaction is tempered by two things.

One, it will require careful balancing on WotC's part to make sure that the things one can spend these dice on are worth spending dice on. Additional options aren't really worth having if they all suck worse than the default. I'm not saying that they cannot or will not make the effort, but it's something they'll have to watch.

Two, while this addresses my concern about the fighter lacking any real choices to make during combat, it does absolutely nothing about my concern that the fighter lacks any class specific mechanics or benefits that are in any way useful in non-combat situations.

Wizard and Cleric magic has combat and non-combat uses. Rogues get class features that are combat specific (sneak attack), but that's in addition to a boatload of features that have both combat and non-combat applications. In both cases (spell selection and rogue scheme selection), you have some degree of choice as to what out-of-combat benefits your class gives you, completely separate from whatever you gain from background and theme. The fighter currently gives you a choice between squat and bupkis.

They could include the ability to add the dice to ability (str,dex,con) checks. It wouldn't be ultra flashy, but a + to you str check can be useful in a lot of places.

Ratskinner · Aug 2, 2012

Grydan said:
Two, while this addresses my concern about the fighter lacking any real choices to make during combat, it does absolutely nothing about my concern that the fighter lacks any class specific mechanics or benefits that are in any way useful in non-combat situations.

Wizard and Cleric magic has combat and non-combat uses. Rogues get class features that are combat specific (sneak attack), but that's in addition to a boatload of features that have both combat and non-combat applications. In both cases (spell selection and rogue scheme selection), you have some degree of choice as to what out-of-combat benefits your class gives you, completely separate from whatever you gain from background and theme. The fighter currently gives you a choice between squat and bupkis.

I would respond in two ways:

a) Backgrounds, I think, stand a chance of really bringing the Fighter up to speed on Non-combat issues. Simply by leveling the playing field a bit. The Rogue would/should still get some extra juice there, since that's the Rogue's turf as combat is the Fighter's. Sorry, Fighter-lovers, I agree that you may have been given short shrift in previous editions, but if you want to dominate combat, you have to give in the other pillars.

b) Casters, whaddya gonna do? In this case, I think the disparity derives from the fact that "magic" isn't one of the three pillars. Given that genre sources range from magic being almost all-combat to no-combat...D&D has taken magic to be capable of almost anything. As others have stated before, I think the solution is to really clamp down on the (daily) flexibility of the casting classes. You should be able to build a Caster that is consistently strong in any pillar. You shouldn't be able to build a Caster that can dominate in any/all pillars after a rest.

IMO, play what you wish.

DEFCON 1 · Aug 2, 2012

Sadrik said:
No no no no. I do not like it, a fighter does not need to have unique niche abilities. A fighter needs to be solid reliable and without a lot of decision points. Magic items and an occasional appropriately penalized maneuver are all the fighter needs. Simple tough and deadly. Book of 9 swords/4e silliness is not what I think the fighter needs. Good luck.

Well, then you're in luck. Because Combat Superiority has "base damage" mode. So instead of all the 9 Swords / 4E "silliness" (as you put it)... you instead just get extra damage on your attack.

And I would imagine that extra damage might also come in two forms as you please... extra dice or a flat bonus-- like +1d6 or +4. No fuss, no muss. Basic Fighter FTW!

Isn't that nice! You get what you want, other people get what they want! We're all happy!

john112364 · Aug 2, 2012

Sadrik said:
No no no no. I do not like it, a fighter does not need to have unique niche abilities. A fighter needs to be solid reliable and without a lot of decision points. Magic items and an occasional appropriately penalized maneuver are all the fighter needs. Simple tough and deadly. Book of 9 swords/4e silliness is not what I think the fighter needs. Good luck.

Well then I have good news! For those who want a solid reliable fighter without a lot of decision points this system has a default : you deal extra damage! No need to worry about overloading your fighters with options just hit and deal damage. There ya go done.

However for those who like a few more options, this system offers some special manuevors at the expense of that exta damage. And the best thing is that both fighters can play at the same table and still feel like they are contributing.

Win all around.

Halivar · Aug 2, 2012

I have a hard time understanding what could be controversial about optional character complexity for fighters.

BTW, I would like to see metamagic feats done away with, and have them incorporated into some sort of "arcane superiority". I think this is an elegant mechanic that could used in any number of ways.

Steely_Dan · Aug 2, 2012

The Little Raven said:
So, the fighter gets a certain amount of dice/number of sides depending on level, and can spend them to do stuff like boost damage, boost accuracy

Did they mention boosting accuracy?

It seems too swingy, considering bounded accuracy, rolling 2d6 or what-have-you and adding that to your attack roll seems a little steep.

The Little Raven · Aug 2, 2012

Steely_Dan said:
Did they mention boosting accuracy?

It seems too swingy, considering bounded accuracy, rolling 2d6 or what-have-you and adding that to your attack roll seems a little steep.

It was just an example, not an actual statement of what the system contains. I don't actually know if accuracy would be an option.

D&D 5E And Lo, the Fighter Did Get a Shtick of his Own... COMBAT SUPERIORITY!

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