D&D Next Q&A

I'm A Banana · Aug 3, 2012

I don't think it'll be hard to adjust for encounter-focused gameplay. Like I've said elsewhere, it's mostly just a matter of tweaking your rest duration.

Putting all the XP of one day into one (or two or 3 or whatever) encounters isn't necessarily going to jack the allotted time up to unmanageable levels, especially in a game like 5e where combat can be almost TOO fast-and-furious for some groups.

So people who have only a few encounters in a day can "balance" them by making them tough. Or people who want supreme ultra flexibility in their encounters/day can just put daily XP into each encounter, and have a game that probably plays a lot like 4e in terms of pacing.

OR, people can not worry about "balancing" their encounters, and they can have classes with daily abilities dominate, so they can have fun in same way their old high-level 3e or 2e games were fun.

Rather than thinking in terms of a "scene," it might help some folks to think in terms of "what it takes to accomplish your goal."

To me, this rule-of-three gave some very interesting views on how 5e is going to be structured. And I like what I'm seeing. It allows for a lot of flexibility.

Ahnehnois · Aug 3, 2012

Morrus said:
D&D rulebooks aren't written for those grizzled DM's with long beards who recognise that issue and know how to solve it. They're written for new D&D players who are learning how to DM.

I don't think that's true. I certainly hope it's not true.

I look at a D&D rulebook as a tool use use to run a game; it's much like a baseball bat is for a baseball player. I don't expect beginners to know how to use it. In fact, if a novice picks up a baseall bat and hits a home run; I'd say something's off.

More to the point, balancing and pacing and various other facets of DMing are things that each DM has to learn by doing. Maybe a little bit of advice identifying common issues can help, but it really isn't the point of a rulebook.

Bedrockgames · Aug 3, 2012

Morrus said:
D&D rulebooks aren't written for those grizzled DM's with long beards who recognise that issue and know how to solve it. They're written for new D&D players who are learning how to DM.

Let's not make the mistake of equating "I personally do not have that issue" with "nobody in the world has that issue". 25 years ago, I had some pretty frickin' dire D&D games. I wish I hadn't grown 25 years older in the meantime, but it's not the fault of the 13 yr old kids picking up a D&D rulebook today.

This is a fair point, but I am concerned that attempts to fix the 15 minute adventuring day problem by bakinga solution into the mechanics, will produce a game that I enjoy less. I think an optional rule meant to reign in the 15 minute adventuring day for those who do have the problem, will help solve it without creating problems for those of us who do not have the problem.

FireLance · Aug 3, 2012

I know not everyone likes encounter based design, but it is quite robust to one principle which I believe DMs will have to learn again in the transition to daily adventure budgets:

Double the XP, and the difficulty more than doubles. Halve the XP, and the difficulty is reduced by more than half.

A series of eight fights against individual orcs is easier than a series of four fights against pairs of orcs is easier than two fights against two groups of four orcs each is easier than a single fight against eight orcs.

Daily adventure budgets assume they are all the same. Encounter based design recognizes that they are not.

Dice4Hire · Aug 3, 2012

Morrus said:
D&D rulebooks aren't written for those grizzled DM's with long beards who recognise that issue and know how to solve it. They're written for new D&D players who are learning how to DM.

Let's not make the mistake of equating "I personally do not have that issue" with "nobody in the world has that issue". 25 years ago, I had some pretty frickin' dire D&D games. I wish I hadn't grown 25 years older in the meantime, but it's not the fault of the 13 yr old kids picking up a D&D rulebook today.

I said I did not have the issue and gave a way I wanted it handled.

I just cannot agree this needs to be hardcoded into the rules, or even explained at length in the rules.

To turn your experience back on you, would you have understood this or even cared when you started out? I am sure I would not have understood or cared.

TwoSix · Aug 3, 2012

FireLance said:
I know not everyone likes encounter based design, but it is quite robust to one principle which I believe DMs will have to learn again in the transition to daily adventure budgets:

Double the XP, and the difficulty more than doubles. Halve the XP, and the difficulty is reduced by more than half.

A series of eight fights against individual orcs is easier than a series of four fights against pairs of orcs is easier than two fights against two groups of four orcs each is easier than a single fight against eight orcs.

Daily adventure budgets assume they are all the same. Encounter based design recognizes that they are not.

Can't XP you, but that's an excellent point.

Chris_Nightwing · Aug 3, 2012

FireLance said:
I know not everyone likes encounter based design, but it is quite robust to one principle which I believe DMs will have to learn again in the transition to daily adventure budgets:

Double the XP, and the difficulty more than doubles. Halve the XP, and the difficulty is reduced by more than half.

A series of eight fights against individual orcs is easier than a series of four fights against pairs of orcs is easier than two fights against two groups of four orcs each is easier than a single fight against eight orcs.

Daily adventure budgets assume they are all the same. Encounter based design recognizes that they are not.

So in encounter based design, 8 fights against individual orcs is the same as 1 fight against 8 orcs? You've got something wrong there.

Morrus · Aug 3, 2012

Dice4Hire said:
I said I did not have the issue and gave a way I wanted it handled.

I just cannot agree this needs to be hardcoded into the rules, or even explained at length in the rules.

Well, no, I imagine that if you have not had the issue you wouldn't see why it needs addressing.

FireLance · Aug 3, 2012

Chris_Nightwing said:
So in encounter based design, 8 fights against individual orcs is the same as 1 fight against 8 orcs? You've got something wrong there.

Actually, it is daily based design that says they are the same because they have the same XP budget (1,000 XP, assuming one orc is worth 125 XP). Encounter based design says that they are eight 125 XP encounters and one 1,000 XP encounter respectively.

Balesir · Aug 3, 2012

Chris_Nightwing said:
So in encounter based design, 8 fights against individual orcs is the same as 1 fight against 8 orcs? You've got something wrong there.

No, he's saying (and I agree) that a single fight against 8 orcs is harder than eight fights, each against a single orc. Encounter budgetting (a la 4e) recognises this; from what has been said so far, it appears that the "adventure day" design of 5e does not.