D&D Next Q&A 9 August

Mengu · Aug 10, 2012

They're still not answering why this innovative and unique mechanic can only be used with the fighter, and not with the rogue, wizard, or cleric.

Remathilis · Aug 10, 2012

Mengu said:
They're still not answering why this innovative and unique mechanic can only be used with the fighter, and not with the rogue, wizard, or cleric.

Wizards get spells and cantrips. Cleric's get domains and channel divinities. Rogues get skill tricks and sneak attack dice.

Fighters have their own special toy now.

Connorsrpg · Aug 10, 2012

I am definitely liking the sound of Combat Superiority. I love the dice mechanic.

A version of Combat Superiority is going to be in the next Playtest Package (August) isn't it?

Mustrum_Ridcully · Aug 10, 2012

Mengu said:
They're still not answering why this innovative and unique mechanic can only be used with the fighter, and not with the rogue, wizard, or cleric.

Well, you may be able to, if you also visit Fighter School*. If not, sorry, you just didn't devote enough time to truely master the art of combat.

*) multiclassing, perhaps?

ZombieRoboNinja · Aug 10, 2012

Remathilis said:
Wizards get spells and cantrips. Cleric's get domains and channel divinities. Rogues get skill tricks and sneak attack dice.

Fighters have their own special toy now.

Agreed, but the sweetness of CS does raise another conundrum: the other martial classes will need to scramble to keep up.

Since the article makes pretty clear that the number and size of dice both increase in a linear fashion (so something like 1d4, 1d6, 2d6, 2d8, 3d8...) and given that a level 5 fighter gets 2d6 CS dice, it seems logical to think you'll have 3d8 by level 10 and somewhere north of 5d12 by level 20.

But to avoid any extra guessing, let's just use the 2d6 at level 5 mentioned in the first L&L article. This means that a level 5 archery-fighter can do 3d6 damage every round, without even a magic weapon. And if he's unexpectedly surrounded, he can switch his dice to defense, giving him a DR of 2-12. All the sudden, every fighter can do impressive damage with any weapon you put in his hand.

These numbers sound pretty cool to me, but they raise the standard for other classes. The rogue might hang in there damage-wise with sneak attack (especially at +1d6 per level), but compared to the fighter's numerous CS options, will the hide-sneak attack-hide pattern start to feel dull? To draw from Mengu's original question, where are the rogue's cool tricks?

And, more centrally, how are monks, paladins, rangers, and barbarians going to stay in the same vicinity as the fighter as martial warriors? Barbarians and paladins at least have rage and smite/spells, which could be strengthened and expanded to enhance those classes' combat schticks, but the ranger honestly might need something big.

And for that matter, wizard/cleric cantrips better scale significantly, or they'll be a comparative joke even by mid-levels.

Mustrum_Ridcully · Aug 10, 2012

We'll see what the classes bring, some of them have good starting points:
Paladin: Auras, Lay on Hands, Divine Channeling, Turn Undead?
Barbarian: Rage?

GX.Sigma · Aug 10, 2012

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
Well, you may be able to, if you also visit Fighter School*. If not, sorry, you just didn't devote enough time to truely master the art of combat.

*) multiclassing, perhaps?

I like this answer, and I really really hope the system doesn't penalize you for taking levels in different classes every once in a while.

Mustrum_Ridcully · Aug 10, 2012

GX.Sigma said:
I like this answer, and I really really hope the system doesn't penalize you for taking levels in different classes every once in a while.

The chance for a robut multiclassing system seems to me very dependent on how "front-loaded" classes are, and how their ability scales.

In 3E, there was a lot of front-loading via saves and starting class features, but also a lot of stuff that was delayed for later. It sometimes dependend on the class. The Ranger was heavily front-loaded with his fighting style, tracking, skills and saves, where the Fighter only had that one feat more, basically. Taking at least one level of Ranger was a really good investment.

4E classes were even more front-loaded, by design, hence the multiclassing in 4E was a lot more restrictive. (I personally think they went too far with the power swap feats, they are too costly to be worth it. If they gave a tiny bit more - say, another skill training feat, or some other minor class feature... They could be worth it.)

Wednesday Boy · Aug 10, 2012

D&D Next Q&A said:
Every fighter starts out with two “freebie” uses of the dice: adding damage onto your attacks, and reducing damage from incoming attacks. We’re also looking at giving you a third right out of the gate, based on the fighting style you selected.

Instead of having two freebie uses and a third customizable use, I would prefer to choose all three uses of CS dice. (Although it will be easy to fix with a houserule.)

ExploderWizard · Aug 10, 2012

Mengu said:
They're still not answering why this innovative and unique mechanic can only be used with the fighter, and not with the rogue, wizard, or cleric.

Brain. Hurting.

The #1 complaint in the fighter vs caster wars is " Theres nothing a fighter can do that a caster can't do better".

Now the powers that be want to give the fighter something that the other classes can't do better and you want to know why?