Pathfinder 1E How does the magus perform at high levels?

Lord Pendragon · Aug 12, 2012

I had it, and I barely ever failed to cast defensively... I think I had a +23 concentration roll by the end of the game, and the highest DC I ever had to make was DC 23 to cast a 4th-level spell.

Right, but what I'm asking is how often you need to cast defensively, in general, not how often you make the roll.

I'm thinking that at least levels 1-10, I can avoid the need to cast defensively most of the time. And if I do need to do so, I can use Spell Combat to dump a +5 circumstance bonus on it. At least in theory.

mr_outsidevoice · Aug 12, 2012

I cast defensively all the time, but I have never felt the need for Combat Casting. Early on I just cast buffs or attacked at range before entering the fray. Now, my concentration checks are that I only fail on a Natural 1 no matter what level spell I cast.

SteelDraco · Aug 12, 2012

Lord Pendragon said:
Right, but what I'm asking is how often you need to cast defensively, in general, not how often you make the roll.

I'm thinking that at least levels 1-10, I can avoid the need to cast defensively most of the time. And if I do need to do so, I can use Spell Combat to dump a +5 circumstance bonus on it. At least in theory.

I didn't want to have to dance in and out of combat - I had people depending on me as a tank to engage foes, and two rogues in the party that I often flanked with. It made more sense to me to just keep my concentration check high and easily make the roll than move around and avoid rolling. If you've got a dedicated tank and the group doesn't need flankers, you could probably manage it fairly easily until you're facing a lot of reach critters.

Attack penalties suck for a medium BAB class. Except for Power Attack, I avoided them. Accurate Strike is too expensive to rely on it every round, and you won't get that for a while.

Lord Pendragon · Aug 15, 2012

SteelDraco said:
I didn't want to have to dance in and out of combat - I had people depending on me as a tank to engage foes, and two rogues in the party that I often flanked with. It made more sense to me to just keep my concentration check high and easily make the roll than move around and avoid rolling. If you've got a dedicated tank and the group doesn't need flankers, you could probably manage it fairly easily until you're facing a lot of reach critters.

*nod* This makes sense. At this point I'm not sure what the other players intend to bring to the group. We are usually pretty good about covering our bases though, so I expect there will be at least 2 full BAB melee of some sort, and quite possibly a rogue.

Attack penalties suck for a medium BAB class. Except for Power Attack, I avoided them. Accurate Strike is too expensive to rely on it every round, and you won't get that for a while.

Yeah, we'll have to see how things go at low levels. I'm not crazy about losing any hit either. I will probably avoid casting defensively at the lower levels. Looking at my number of spells available, I'm not sure I'll be doing much Spellstriking in the first few levels anyway. I'm thinking Shield/Color Spray will be my bread and butter for the first few levels.

Lord Pendragon · Sep 14, 2012

What magic items does a magus need?

So after taking in the advice from this thread, I wound up rolling up a dex-based magus for our upcoming game. I just liked the idea of him being lightly armored, which fits in well with the airship theme the campaign will have.

At level 1 he's got a rapier and carries Shield and Color Spray prepared, though at level 3 he'll swap to a gunblade (scimitar reskinned with a couple extras) and really start cooking.

I'm wondering what sorts of magic items other magi have prioritized (other than the general stat belt, resistance cloak, ring of protection, etc.)?

I'm definitely thinking Gloves of Elvenkind for the bonus to Concentration checks for pretty cheap, as well as level 1 Pearls of Power and a Wand of Shield, so I don't have to prep it anymore.

[Edit to add]: Of course the go-to armor for a dervish magus is Celestial Armor. Another post made me consider Celestial Full Plate, but I'm thinking the +1 AC you gain isn't worth the penalty to movement for wearing Medium Armor. Then again, if I wind up almost continually being under the effects of Overland Flight, that might not be such an issue...

Do any other items mesh particularly well with the magus?

Epametheus · Sep 18, 2012

My vague recollections of my party's tiefling magus in the Serpent Skull adventure path:

1) He had a mithril breastplate.

2) He took the arcanas for being able to use wands with spell combat with full caster level, which meant a great deal of fireballing later in the campaign.

3) He took combat casting and a trait to raise his concentration check by +2. Eventually, he couldn't fail concentration checks.

4) Aside from the wands, I think he was more or less geared out as a fighter. He fought with a longsword, though he agreed that a scimitar would've been objectively better.

5) He had a high strength, so he did use Power Attack, IIRC.

Lord Pendragon · Sep 19, 2012

I read a post today talking about "wyroot" which is apparently a special material of some sort from Ultimate Equipment that can return a pool point whenever you confirm a crit with it. Worth looking into!

Starbuck_II · Sep 19, 2012

Lord Pendragon said:
I read a post today talking about "wyroot" which is apparently a special material of some sort from Ultimate Equipment that can return a pool point whenever you confirm a crit with it. Worth looking into!

Yes, definately, if enemies are unconscious not dead you can Coup de Grace them all after battle for all your arcane pool points back.

Lord Pendragon · Sep 19, 2012

Starbuck_II said:
Yes, definately, if enemies are unconscious not dead you can Coup de Grace them all after battle for all your arcane pool points back.

I don't think this would fit in with my CG pirate/swashbuckler's moral compass, but regaining some points whenever confirming a crit would still be pretty amazing. With a 15-20 threat range, that's gotta give me 1-2 back each combat!

Lord Pendragon · Sep 20, 2012

Epametheus said:
1) He had a mithril breastplate.

Nice. Was he strength-based? I'm aiming toward a Celestial Armor myself, mithril if my DM will allow it (there appears to be some dissention as to whether named items can be made of mithril to add those properties).

2) He took the arcanas for being able to use wands with spell combat with full caster level, which meant a great deal of fireballing later in the campaign.

It's funny you should mention that, I just noticed Fireball was on our spell list the other day. I'd been concentrating on swordplay so much that it'd completely slipped by me. Not sure how I feel about blasting, but as our group has no mage I may need to look into being able to fill that role when needed. Unfortunately I do not have the feats to be extremely good at it via wands.

3) He took combat casting and a trait to raise his concentration check by +2. Eventually, he couldn't fail concentration checks.

It takes a while for me to reach the no-fail with my highest level spells, though I do get there. I picked up a 3rd-party magus arcana that grants +3 to concentration checks myself.

4) Aside from the wands, I think he was more or less geared out as a fighter. He fought with a longsword, though he agreed that a scimitar would've been objectively better.

Eh, you play what's fun, right?

Regarding being geared-out as a fighter, that is one of the problems I'm having getting suggestions for my magus. Lots of overlap with fighters or wizards, and not so much for magi in particular. Not that this is necessarily bad.

5) He had a high strength, so he did use Power Attack, IIRC.

*nod* I'm dex-based because I really wanted that image of a lightly armored swashbuckler, especially on an airship, and this seemed like a rare opportunity to do that and not be penalized for it mechanically, but I did play around with str-based at first.

I don't have Power Attack in my build at the moment, though that may change if my DM approves a custom spell I'm working on. Would still be much later in his progression, but he has the 13 str to qualify for the feat. How does Power Attack play out at 15th+ level? Do critter ACs rise too high for a 3/4 BAB class to afford it?

What wands did your magus favor? How did he store/wield them? I'm human, so no prehensile tails or hair.

I'm really thinking that wyroot is a must-have for magi going forward. Although it costs a swift action (which are in high demand as a magus), the ability to recover a couple points of arcane pool in a combat, even without the coup de grace cheese, is invaluable. Even 1 point means another full round of touch attacks at mid- to high-levels. Here's hoping my DM will allow me to make my sword's hilt out of it and have that count.

Are there any better gloves out there for a magus than Gloves of Elvenkind? There aren't many options listed at the PFOGC, but then I don't think it has Ultimate Equipment included yet.

Also, how do the rest of you feel about buffing int? I'll be bumping it to 20 at 8th-level. I'm wondering whether I should invest in a headband to take that farther, or invest in other items first. Naturally Dex will be my first priority as far as buffing items go, given how many things it improves for me.

Thoughts? Ideas? Tactics? Let's talk magus! :lol: