D&D 4th Edition Future of D&D Keynote Speech [UPDATE - with video!] - Page 11


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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverblade The Ench View Post
    you completely failed to grasp the problem and my point.
    Most young people will not play D&D, no matter what system folk make, because they play *computer games*

    If you all want D&D to flourish, you MUST get kids invovled, and sorry the majority of kids simply will not get involved with a "boring thing with books n dice" when they can plug in a game and get right into the action themselves.
    And it is ACTION, it is not "whack a rat", standing there hitting each other once a turn...
    You don't actually have children, do you?
    Last edited by DMKastmaria; Wednesday, 22nd August, 2012 at 02:26 PM.
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  • #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMKastmaria View Post
    You don't actually have children, do you?
    To elaborate: I find that children, my own included, want to be involved in the social activities their parents enjoy, if you include them at an early enough age*. Both of my kids will enthusiastically turn off the video games to play Munchkin, M:TG and D&D with their dad. And the neighborhood kids even joined in a game of D&D and had a blast. One of my old gaming buddies and his cousin play Heroscape and D&D with their kids who also gladly turn off the video games to enjoy time with their dads.

    Silverblade would only be correct, IMO, if the children were left to their own devices and not given the attention of their parents. But even then (let's say their parents aren't gamers, such as mine were not) the game still draws curiosity and does effectively compete with video games. I was playing then modern video games regularly when I learned about D&D. I really don't play video games any more, but I'm still playing D&D 30 years later.


    *My older son is 11 so I haven't yet experienced directly what to expect when he hits his teen years. But other gaming parents I know experience a continued interest in the game, even though their teens might have no more interest in hanging out with their parents.
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  • #103
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    While the keynote was okay and all that, as many others here have already said, it said nothing to me about my life- nice that all the old stuff is back out again. I played through a lot of it at the time (or as much as I could), so I've kinda read it, done it etc. Again though- good for people to revisit or else experience for the first time.

    The rest was pretty much FR which the various gaming groups I have played with in the last 30-whatever years it is have more or less all dismissed as a bit- meh. Mostly in favour of Greyhawk, or Lankhmar, or something homebrewed a bit... darker, edgier, something like that.

    Last point- re Silverblade et als kids play computer games- they do, I work in education, have done for decades- kids bring their cool stuff in to show their friends, get them interested.

    I've not see an odd-shaped dice in a classroom, or at least not one I didn't bring in myself, for... phew, easily a decade. I see consoles, handheld and kids that talk about nothing but electronic games on a daily basis- every day, and for over a decade probably.

    I appreciate I'm over here in the UK, and in Grimsby, but when I was a kid there were clubs, and groups and, well... loads of RPG gaming. Now, and I've looked- hence my drift to maptools and on-line gaming, nada- tumbleweed. I guess there could still be kids playing at home and all, but I've not heard the phrase 'dungeons & dragons'- except when followed by DDO, for some considerable time.

    I honestly think a killer D&D game would indeed turn many more kids on to D&D than any new edition, IMHO, of course.
    4e Points of Light Campaign (with nice images), go here.

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    I was busy for the last few days, so I'm just now catching up.

    I have only one thing to say about what was said in the keynote address:


    HUZZAH!

  • #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goonalan View Post
    When I was a kid there were clubs, and groups and, well... loads of RPG gaming. Now, and I've looked- hence my drift to maptools and on-line gaming, nada- tumbleweed.

    I honestly think a killer D&D game would indeed turn many more kids on to D&D than any new edition, IMHO, of course.
    My first gaming club was sponsored by my junior high librarian. I bet if you sponsored an after-school D&D club you could re-kindle the environment that you remember from your childhood. I agree that a new edition alone will not bring in new gamers, but I don't think a computer game necessarily will either. It takes current gamers to spread the fun to new gamers, IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyvyan Basterd View Post
    My first gaming club was sponsored by my junior high librarian. I bet if you sponsored an after-school D&D club you could re-kindle the environment that you remember from your childhood. I agree that a new edition alone will not bring in new gamers, but I don't think a computer game necessarily will either. It takes current gamers to spread the fun to new gamers, IMO.
    Sorry, slightly miffed by your response, if you think I haven't tried etc. That it's as simple as that. The games I've started last exactly as long as I can put in the hours, longest run was through the Sunken Citadel.

    If I were to go into the methods employed, the effort I've put in- sound effects, drawings, puzzles, quizzes, prizes, monsters played by jelly snakes, all manner of daftness, and of course high fantasy. At the end of the day the most entertaining thing, regardless of what rpg we were playing, was me- at least that's how it felt.

    And the competition for their attention is constant, if I had a 1 for every time a kid had said to me- 'this would be great on a computer...', I'd have retired years ago.

    I get that I can enthuse them but there's no one else playing the games, and no shops in Grimsby selling rpg stuff, and no clubs etc. And over here, Harry Potter and Vampires aside (which are good things don't get me wrong), reading is not high on a lot of kids agendas.

    But at the end of the day, I miss a week (because of work, home-life or whatever), and the next week half of the kids are gone, and back on their consoles; or even worse- I get phone calls and complaints. They even bring their handhelds to the sessions, I think I must be living in a different world to you.

    I've just stopped teaching for good, my last years were spent teaching in higher education- degrees et al. I used to ask my students at the start of the units I was delivering to complete a questionnaire- about social media, what they read, watch etc. So that I could tailor some of the delivery to match their interests, and I'll say this again- these are degree level students. In some classes over a third of the students had never read a book all the way through. And if you exclude Harry Potter and Vampires then for over 50% of the students the last book they read was at school when they were kids.

    Sorry if I was a little stuffy to begin with but your reply seemed a little glib at first, like I'd not thought to try starting my own group. The other thing is its difficult at times to do a job that accounts for far more of your hours than you spend at work- all the prep at home. Then having to spend weekends catching up because I'm putting more hours in for a side project- gaming.

    Last bit, gaming with kids is good fun at times, but I'm approaching the half-century- I have very little in common with them, save that I'm their teacher. It's like being on duty all the time- because that's exactly what it is. I stopped trying after about 3-4 years because I wasn't getting anything out of the experience, or very little, it didn't remind me at all of the times when I was DMing people of my own age, with similar cultural experiences.

    I game on-line now, and my group has been together for years, and we talk about life, and love and loss as much as we talk about anything, and its great.

    Sorry for the over-written aside, back to the thread...

    I still think the FR is meh, and I've a loft full of all of my old gaming stuff, and I'm still waiting for 5e to light a fire under me...
    4e Points of Light Campaign (with nice images), go here.

  • #107
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    How many kids actually have parents who will game with them?
    Who don't beat them or abuse them?
    Who escape crap lives in books & games?

    Stop for goodness sake folk, thinking the "rest of the world is a D&D bubble"!
    it's NOT.
    How did many of you get into D&D back in the day?
    Many places it was damn near illegal because of loony social mores',
    some it was "strange/new/forbidden" and thus a thrill
    Some found D&D by accident, or by books

    But the world is different now.
    For D&D to thrive, new generations must embrace it.
    They will NOT embrace it in enough numbers via books and "iffy" computer games
    games are the prime medium for them today.
    They need blockbusters to thrill and excite and entice them.

    Soon, those who began playing D&D at the start, will be dying or too old/sick to play, terrible social changes are coming in some places, etc.
    Blunt, but true.

    I think the HOMELAND trilogy by RAS is fantastic, I enjoyed the Dragonlance series of novels, others I liked too (Corsair for example)
    But I could barely be bothered ot read the latest Drizzt book. It...I don't want to hurt RSA feelings, as I respect him, but...blech. It had no punch at all.
    And that sums up D&D to me at the moment, it has run out of OOMPH.

    Rehashing the Realms...meh, big deal. So what.
    All reminds me too much of the catastrophically bungled let down of the end of Mass Effect 3.
    Highs and lows and goes out with a damp, ludicrous squib, not even a bang :/

    [I] GET SOME GAWD DAMN FIRE IN D&D, AGAIN, FOR FRIK'S SAKE, PLEASE?!!![/I]

    and no I don't have kids, my cousin's kid and I get on great though cause we're both nerds :P
    He is interested in playing D&D, but, the complexity, time vs how easy it is to fire up "Fallout"?
    The sandbox type games are great ways ot get youngsters into the idea of oh,more than a mere shoot 'em up, a story, do what you want...Roleplay.

    Personally I think WOTC should get someone like Obsidian to do a Fallout3 style Dark Sun game, 'cause THAT would be interesting, have VAVAVOOM!
    Done right, you get a blockbuster, that drives the olde "steel spike" in the wall, that the "rope of interest" attaches to...that leads to the "DLCs/sequels" and...interested new folk.
    NEW players...NEW....

    sorry for the negativity but, sigh, I love D&D like you all do, but I also see how D&D itself is becoming...irrelevant...forgotten...
    it's somewhat different to the "CRPG" era that ended up with TSR's death...and then D&D's rebirth, with vavavoom! under WOTC's early period.
    But it is ismilar, case of the "terminal blahs" is coming down over D&D
    many will deny this....stop it. You ain't doing any good denying the truth.

    Consoles, or D&D...what do you think many kids in ordinary families will play?

    I want D&D to be around loooong after I'm gone.

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  • #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverblade The Ench View Post
    How many kids actually have parents who will game with them?

    Stop for goodness sake folk, thinking the "rest of the world is a D&D bubble"!
    it's NOT.
    I know it's not. If you think D&D can ever pull every kid into gaming you've got unrealistic goals. The same kids that became interested in this niche hobby when we were young will find it today. And they'll find it the same way we did. More kids have gaming parents now than when I got into the hobby, that's for sure. I'm not arguing that a D&D video game won't bring in new players, but it is by far not the only thing that will. And those kids that "won't put down the video games" aren't anymore likely to shut them off just because they find a cool D&D video game.

    @Goonalan - I didn't mean to assume that you hadn't tried anything to support gaming. You hadn't mentioned that you had, but even then the "you" in my response wasn't meant as "Goonalan." I meant that as "if one were to," sorry to imply I meant you specifically. I know the time commitments it would take and I would be the last person to point fingers at someone else for not taking the time to start such a club. I surely do not have the time. I even have to tell my own children I'm too busy at times to play.
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  • #109
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    That was an interesting watch (both what was said and the audience reaction).

    You could feel the lack of excitement about the Realms being the setting from the audience. The cold reception of Drzz't and Elminster.

    A few things I'd like to say.

    1) @Piratecat Congrats! I thought you did a great job. You can be proud.
    2) Though I remain only politely interested in 5e, I find the spirit behind the development of 5e to be admirable. WotC are in many ways in a position where they are damned if they do, and they are damned if they don't. I really do wish them the best with what I'm sure will be a fantasic version of D&D upon release.
    3) The art looked fantastic. I applaud what they are doing there.
    4) Another realm's shaking event ... I have my doubts as well I must admit. But I'll reserve judgement until I see what they come up with.
    5) The re-release of catalogued PDFs is an interesting gesture. Smart. They seem to systematically trying to right 'wrongs' committed with the last change of edition. another step in the right direction.


    All in all I'm just glad to hear that they are not going to rush towards release.

    As for my opinion about kids and the future of D&D (which having skipped from page 2 to pg 11 seems to be where the conversation has gone), I have a 7 year old boy who loves video games, especially lego star wars. I've introduced him to D&D (him and his friends and cousins). And he loves it (as did his friends and cousins). I've also seen how quickly the video games are abandoned when an adult proposes a game (any game that is minimally fun and exciting) and devotes all their attention to that group of kids.

    Besides, who really knows what the future holds. I can't even imagine what the world will be like 5 years from now to be honest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverblade The Ench View Post

    sorry for the negativity but, sigh, I love D&D like you all do, but I also see how D&D itself is becoming...irrelevant...forgotten...
    it's somewhat different to the "CRPG" era that ended up with TSR's death...and then D&D's rebirth, with vavavoom! under WOTC's early period.
    But it is ismilar, case of the "terminal blahs" is coming down over D&D
    many will deny this....stop it. You ain't doing any good denying the truth.

    Consoles, or D&D...what do you think many kids in ordinary families will play?

    I want D&D to be around loooong after I'm gone.
    We are an interesting 'community' us RPGers. I feel that sometimes we shoot ourselves in our own foot. That's not to say that your points aren't valid about the chosen setting. But I do think that sometimes the intense passion that often comes out as negativity can lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    The imagination is a powerful thing. So I prefer to imagine a bright and happy future for table top RPGs in whatever form they take. And that there will be a whole bunch of kids, just like me (I also love video games) who will take up the torch, and duly pass it on to their kids.

    Edit: BTW, I'm currently doing my final practicum before I graduate as a primary school teacher at the moment. It's my third week at my current school. The class' topic is Ancient Greece (due to the Olympics of course). And there is a large group of girls who are Harry Potter fans. So I asked my Associate Teacher what he thought about me running a lunch time club a couple of days of the week to run a couple of D&D games for the kids. One would have an Ancient Greece theme, and the other a Harry Potter theme that would tangle with Ancient Greek myths. He said to go for it! So I described to the class very briefly what the idea was and then asked for a show of hands to see how many would be interested in playing the Ancient Greece game. Everyone put up their hands. Then I asked who would be interested in playing the Harry Potter game. Everyone put up their hands. Of course that's not practical, so there my first hurdle is too much interest. Pretty cool hurdle to have, aye?

    So, really, like anything that kids get interested in, I think part of 'the problem' is that sooo many kids just don't have someone they look up to, and think is cool, to be a bridge for them to even try D&D and see what its all about. As soon as they try it out, I just know that they'll be hooked. SO I'm going to make it my mission to groom a student in each of the games to take over from me at the end of the 4 weeks I have left. And it's not going to be D&D of any edition. But it will be a D&D experience, I assure you.
    Last edited by jbear; Friday, 24th August, 2012 at 02:30 PM.
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