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Wednesday, 29th August, 2012, 07:55 PM #21
Guide (Lvl 11)
I'm not saying edition books are neutral. I'm saying it's BS that wizards only puts them out when it's convenient for them to start pushing their new system. If they want edition neutral books, MAKE A FREAKING ENTIRE LINE OF THEM. I don't see how you can possibly argue FOR wizards when they are completely giving the middle finger to their 4th edition fans in a very blatant way. Don't like the 4th edition material? Don't use it. How can anything MORE to the book, be bad when you can just ignore it? I do it all the time with other system's books.
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Wednesday, 29th August, 2012, 11:49 PM #22
Grandmaster of Flowers (Lvl 18)
WOTC is reaching out to all their supporters, current (4E) and other, with this book and the FR one to come out soon.
I cannot find any fault in that
4E is still being supported online with Dragon and Dungeon.
Thursday, 30th August, 2012, 12:54 PM #23
Gallant (Lvl 3)
Thursday, 30th August, 2012, 07:59 PM #24
Lama (Lvl 13)
Second, I would love to see an entire evergreen line of system-neutral products, but I doubt that WotC has the resources to do that while also supporting their current edition with crunch. That said, it makes much more sense to have the crunch-heavy books among the earliest releases during an edition cycle and release rules-light material primarily later, after there has been a glut of crunch.
You seem to be very angry.I don't see how you can possibly argue FOR wizards when they are completely giving the middle finger to their 4th edition fans in a very blatant way. Don't like the 4th edition material? Don't use it. How can anything MORE to the book, be bad when you can just ignore it? I do it all the time with other system's books.
I consider myself a fan of 4th edition (although not exclusively), and yet I just don't feel that way. At this point, the last thing I need is more feats, powers, races, paragon paths, or epic destinies. And, while I would like to see an essentials-style design for the warlord and monk, I'll live without them (besides, my brother & I have already designed a monk defender that is more awesome than any monk WotC has ever designed).
4e already has more crunch than is healthy for it. I could ignore crunch in these products, but if they're releasing material I can incorporate into my game, I'd rather they fill the pages with stuff whose utility transcends the system I've chosen to play for any given campaign.
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Friday, 31st August, 2012, 03:19 AM #25
Novice (Lvl 1)
all kidding aside it's a business decision clearly
there never were many 4th edition fans after the newness wore off
and a criminally low number of 4E FR products/fans
and now there are drastically less
they want to sell books and know that any sniff of 4E in this book will drive away tens of thousands of dollars for a lame duck (and a severely beaten lame duck at that) edition
system neutral it has a chance
Saturday, 1st September, 2012, 05:32 PM #26
Lama (Lvl 13)
I'm not impartial at all (contributed a little to the book, my older brother was the lead designer, and I designed the drow treachery cards) but I think this book will be of value to anyone that wants to revisit Menzoberranzan.
After all is said and done, WotC is trying to earn money. If 4e crunch books are not earning money in a meaningful way (sustainability, branding, etc...) they need to adapt and move on. I actively design for WotC and even I was getting fatigued by the sheer amount of feats, powers, and abilities in the game. If you're interested in that aspect of the game, Dragon magazine still provides it.
Saturday, 1st September, 2012, 06:33 PM #27
Enchanter (Lvl 12)
I totally agree, the magazines should hold most of the crunch and the books should be setting neutral.
Any chance of you telling us if the book going to be out in digital form in the near future? I stoped buying printed books five years ago and I'm interested in buying this one.
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Saturday, 1st September, 2012, 06:43 PM #28
Lama (Lvl 13)
Thursday, 13th September, 2012, 09:08 PM #29
Waghalter (Lvl 7)
Sunday, 16th September, 2012, 09:52 AM #30
Guide (Lvl 11)
I'm not against system neutral books, I LOVE them. My point is that once 5th edition comes around you will never see another system neutral book until they start gearing up for 6th edition. That's what infuriates me the most. If this book had come out and 5th edition was already release you bet your ass this would have been a 5th edition book.