RPGs Gygax on Realism in Game Design - Page 12




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  1. #111
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    ř Ignore Tsuga C

    Loved Those Tables!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    This, very much. And I would disagree about the 'mildly pompous', too. He is VERY pompous, as a rule.

    And considering the fact that he himself produced several rule-systems that got frequently house-ruled out because they were too cumbersome in attempting 'realism' (notably weapon speed factors), quite possibly he should be less ready to throw stones.
    Weapon speed factors and "to hit" adjustments were an excellent addition to AD&D as they encouraged players to pick from a wider variety of weapons. The high-damage weapons were slower to utilize and the lighter ones had inherently less success when used against heavier armor types. That was as it should be and was a touch of realism I thoroughly enjoyed instead of the-- *yawn* --great axe / great sword monotony one often encounters in 3.X. I also liked the greater variety of damage they'd do--again, choices!

 

  • #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuga C View Post
    Weapon speed factors and "to hit" adjustments were an excellent addition to AD&D as they encouraged players to pick from a wider variety of weapons. The high-damage weapons were slower to utilize and the lighter ones had inherently less success when used against heavier armor types. That was as it should be and was a touch of realism I thoroughly enjoyed instead of the-- *yawn* --great axe / great sword monotony one often encounters in 3.X. I also liked the greater variety of damage they'd do--again, choices!
    Um... Weapon Speed Factors weren't even close to realistic. They were the opposite of realistic. Daggers are slower than greatswords - look at how far the point moves for a roll of the wrist. And the person that hits first is the person with the longer weapon. Swords dominated individual combat and spears and polearms the battlefield for a reason.

  • #113
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    Internal Consistency

    Quote Originally Posted by Neonchameleon View Post
    Um... Weapon Speed Factors weren't even close to realistic. They were the opposite of realistic. Daggers are slower than greatswords - look at how far the point moves for a roll of the wrist. And the person that hits first is the person with the longer weapon. Swords dominated individual combat and spears and polearms the battlefield for a reason.
    Look at the weights assigned to the various weapons for purpose of balancing utility and encumberance and you'll be viewing the issue from my perspective. Within the context of the game, the weapon speeds were realistic. Thus, a 1lb dagger was far quicker to employ than a 25lb two-handed sword.

  • #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuga C View Post
    Look at the weights assigned to the various weapons for purpose of balancing utility and encumberance and you'll be viewing the issue from my perspective. Within the context of the game, the weapon speeds were realistic. Thus, a 1lb dagger was far quicker to employ than a 25lb two-handed sword.
    And if you can find me a two handed sword anywhere that actually weighed 25lb I'll be impressed. A claymore was under 7lb. And the extra weight was meant, I believe, to account for length, bulk, and enccumberance.

    Within the context of the game weapon speeds were a gamist balancing factor to account for the fact that bringing a knife to a swordfight migh even be a worse plan than bringing one to a gunfight.

  • #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerikol View Post
    I find it distasteful that people try to abuse Gygax for their own ends now that he is dead when they wouldn't have dared while he was alive.
    Yeah, it's so insulting to him to make claims like:
    • He "looked deeper" than even his fans give him credit for
    • "Thus his words and opinions remain valid."
    • "They cannot easily be dismissed as a product of the era... he did not choose to limit his perspective to that of the era."
    • "Gygax's words here are timeless..."
    • "some nifty piece of writing that simply transcends the notion of eras and focuses on what makes a game compelling."
    Yeah, that's some really harsh stuff.

    Seriously, with "supporters" like some of the ones who have shown up in this thread, Gygax scarcely needs enemies; fortunately for him, with "enemies" like GreyICE, he has little need of supporters either.
    Last edited by jeffh; Friday, 14th September, 2012 at 10:09 AM.
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  • #116
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    I had seen his quotes about the game not being a simulation but not sure how I missed this one. I will say that I like to think of the game as simulating the fiction of heroic and action fantasy.
    Last edited by Garthanos; Friday, 27th December, 2013 at 09:50 PM.

    Visualizing 4e with Rose Magick

    “A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”

    - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein - or the other way around -


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