Gygax on Realism in Game Design

Tsuga C · Sep 12, 2012

Loved Those Tables!

The Shadow said:
This, very much. And I would disagree about the 'mildly pompous', too. He is VERY pompous, as a rule.

And considering the fact that he himself produced several rule-systems that got frequently house-ruled out because they were too cumbersome in attempting 'realism' (notably weapon speed factors), quite possibly he should be less ready to throw stones.

Weapon speed factors and "to hit" adjustments were an excellent addition to AD&D as they encouraged players to pick from a wider variety of weapons. The high-damage weapons were slower to utilize and the lighter ones had inherently less success when used against heavier armor types. That was as it should be and was a touch of realism I thoroughly enjoyed instead of the-- *yawn* --great axe / great sword monotony one often encounters in 3.X. I also liked the greater variety of damage they'd do--again, choices!

Neonchameleon · Sep 13, 2012

Tsuga C said:
Weapon speed factors and "to hit" adjustments were an excellent addition to AD&D as they encouraged players to pick from a wider variety of weapons. The high-damage weapons were slower to utilize and the lighter ones had inherently less success when used against heavier armor types. That was as it should be and was a touch of realism I thoroughly enjoyed instead of the-- *yawn* --great axe / great sword monotony one often encounters in 3.X. I also liked the greater variety of damage they'd do--again, choices!

Um... Weapon Speed Factors weren't even close to realistic. They were the opposite of realistic. Daggers are slower than greatswords - look at how far the point moves for a roll of the wrist. And the person that hits first is the person with the longer weapon. Swords dominated individual combat and spears and polearms the battlefield for a reason.

Tsuga C · Sep 13, 2012

Internal Consistency

Neonchameleon said:
Um... Weapon Speed Factors weren't even close to realistic. They were the opposite of realistic. Daggers are slower than greatswords - look at how far the point moves for a roll of the wrist. And the person that hits first is the person with the longer weapon. Swords dominated individual combat and spears and polearms the battlefield for a reason.

Look at the weights assigned to the various weapons for purpose of balancing utility and encumberance and you'll be viewing the issue from my perspective. Within the context of the game, the weapon speeds were realistic. Thus, a 1lb dagger was far quicker to employ than a 25lb two-handed sword.

Neonchameleon · Sep 13, 2012

Tsuga C said:
Look at the weights assigned to the various weapons for purpose of balancing utility and encumberance and you'll be viewing the issue from my perspective. Within the context of the game, the weapon speeds were realistic. Thus, a 1lb dagger was far quicker to employ than a 25lb two-handed sword.

And if you can find me a two handed sword anywhere that actually weighed 25lb I'll be impressed. A claymore was under 7lb. And the extra weight was meant, I believe, to account for length, bulk, and enccumberance.

Within the context of the game weapon speeds were a gamist balancing factor to account for the fact that bringing a knife to a swordfight migh even be a worse plan than bringing one to a gunfight.

jeffh · Sep 14, 2012

Emerikol said:
I find it distasteful that people try to abuse Gygax for their own ends now that he is dead when they wouldn't have dared while he was alive.

Yeah, it's so insulting to him to make claims like:

He "looked deeper" than even his fans give him credit for
"Thus his words and opinions remain valid."
"They cannot easily be dismissed as a product of the era... he did not choose to limit his perspective to that of the era."
"Gygax's words here are timeless..."
"some nifty piece of writing that simply transcends the notion of eras and focuses on what makes a game compelling."

Yeah, that's some really harsh stuff.

Seriously, with "supporters" like some of the ones who have shown up in this thread, Gygax scarcely needs enemies; fortunately for him, with "enemies" like GreyICE, he has little need of supporters either.

Garthanos · Dec 27, 2013

I had seen his quotes about the game not being a simulation but not sure how I missed this one. I will say that I like to think of the game as simulating the fiction of heroic and action fantasy.

Gygax on Realism in Game Design

Tsuga C

Adventurer

Neonchameleon

Legend

Tsuga C

Adventurer

Neonchameleon

Legend

jeffh

Adventurer

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight

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