Pre-Release Review of 13th AGE (Part 2) by Pelgrane Press

Evenglare · Sep 6, 2012

I still dont understand the difference I guess. If you want to do something can't you just roll and if you dont get number you need just say I miss? How is that different from a normal d20 game when you say you want to do something and then roll and miss? It's just the order in which you say what you are going to do. One way or another the dice is going to decide what you do by rolling a target number, saying what you do before or after is just semantics. I don't think they are forcing you to do another action if you dont want to.

Andor · Sep 7, 2012

Evenglare said:
I still dont understand the difference I guess. If you want to do something can't you just roll and if you dont get number you need just say I miss? How is that different from a normal d20 game when you say you want to do something and then roll and miss? It's just the order in which you say what you are going to do. One way or another the dice is going to decide what you do by rolling a target number, saying what you do before or after is just semantics. I don't think they are forcing you to do another action if you dont want to.

Well, if you say "I want to trip him." but the dice says "You cannot trip, but you can stab him in the knee or insult his culinary talents." then you do, I suppose, have the option to simply do nothing and declare your trip attack missed, but it's would be a silly thing to do when you can simply stab him in the knee and actually have some effect with your action.

So I see what he is saying.

OTOH combat, particularly melee combat is a chaotic affair, so I think I'd be okay with a result that said "You tried to trip him but his footwork was too good and you had to settle for mocking his coconut shrimp."

I do think I would have a problem with completely disconnected results however.
"I drop the remains of my broken sword, hunch up behind my shield and charge, trying to shield rush him over the cliff."
*roll*
"Okay, you picked his pocket and tied his bootlaces together."
"WTF?"

Neonchameleon · Sep 7, 2012

Evenglare said:
I still dont understand the difference I guess. If you want to do something can't you just roll and if you dont get number you need just say I miss? How is that different from a normal d20 game when you say you want to do something and then roll and miss? It's just the order in which you say what you are going to do. One way or another the dice is going to decide what you do by rolling a target number, saying what you do before or after is just semantics. I don't think they are forcing you to do another action if you dont want to.

It's a difference in control. And the way 13th Age works feels to me like a Choose Your Own Adventure novel. Something like:

"I attack him." *roll then consult notes*
You succeed. If you chose to hit normally, turn to page 57. If you choose to trip him, turn to page 68. If you choose to disengage, turn to page 19.

I like knowing what I'm trying to do before I know what the outcome is - the other way feels as if the dice are playing the game more than I am.

GreyICE · Sep 7, 2012

Hah, this system sounds really, really interesting. I am going to have to check it out.

Alphastream · Sep 8, 2012

I find myself agreeing with just about everything but the final rating. I think docking an in-development copy for presentation isn't particularly fair.

I've playtested 13th Age both as a DM and player and we had a really good time. I also recently was treated to a session at PAX run by Rob Heinsoo. It was a fantastic time.

I like that 13th Age has a hefty dose of crunch and is intended for experienced RPG gamers. I really like how easy it is to DM on the fly. When we playtested, nearly all the monsters were done on the fly or with very little preparation. That gives the game enormous flexibility. PCs gain 4E-style powers, but the backgrounds, One Unique Thing, and suggested gridless play make this a really nice combination of story, crunch, and RP. We had not trouble at all playing on a grid, converting classic AD&D adventures, or bringing PC backstory to life.

The icon concept is just incredible. In our game run by Rob he used icons and the One Unique Thing as the focus of the story. That gave it almost an indie game feel while still giving us these fun meaty characters. It is a really nice game.

I encourage folks to check out the Kickstarter. You can pledge and receive the rules and keep them even if you back out!

Pour · Sep 9, 2012

And if the Kickstarter reaches 37k, they'll add the Necromancer class!

mkill · Sep 9, 2012

13th Age really has become my go-to system for fantasy fun. Yesterday I've started to lure the party into the Caverns of Thracia. And what can I say, it does old school pretty well too.

Evenglare · Sep 9, 2012

I'm gearing up for runnign the original dragonlance campaign (using 3.5 modules) . It's so easy plug and play. I love the fact I can just make dragonlance orders of high sorcery backgrounds.

B.T. · Sep 9, 2012

Neonchameleon said:
I like it and want to like it a lot more than I do. But found one crippling problem with it - the combats are as epic as 4e's, but the way the flexible attack rolls work, while evocative, is something I find unpleasantly disempowering. The fighter tries to attack, then the dice tell him how he behaved - no thanks. I'd prefer to have more control over the inputs.

You find that "disempowering"? It's really not that different from rolling your attack roll and finding out how well you hit with the damage roll. If you roll a 16+, you just hit well enough you could knock your enemy over.

Neonchameleon · Sep 10, 2012

B.T. said:
You find that "disempowering"? It's really not that different from rolling your attack roll and finding out how well you hit with the damage roll. If you roll a 16+, you just hit well enough you could knock your enemy over.

Yes. Yes I do - at least after the delights of 4th Edition, Feng Shui, Wushu, WFRP 3E, Dogs in the Vineyard, or Leverage (I'll add Marvel Superheroes to the list when I've played it). And yes it is that different from rolling to see how well you did.

It is, however, only slightly worse than A/O D&D this way - and in classic D&D the tradeoff is simple. Speed. You don't focus in on the same level of details because you run through the combat fast. Fast and uncontrolled doesn't worry me - it's conflict resolution to get back to the important parts. 13th age doesn't have this speed advantage so it does.